Originally posted by whag
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Ferguson Grand Jury...
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Originally posted by whag View PostIf I have to tell you how to avoid death in that situation, this likely won't be a fruitful discussion.
Obviously, more dangerous situations have been defused by better cops.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostI would love to see how YOU would have handled the situation... not what you SAY you would do, but when it actually comes down to it, how you would react. Meanwhile, spewing forth ignorance doesn't qualify as "fruitful discussion".
A few things that come to mind:
1) Wilson said he wasn't carrying a taser. Well...if it happened again, couldn't he have carried one, and fired it instead of the gun when Brown allegedly came charging at him?
2) Wilson said he considered using mace, but then decided against it because in a confined space, he was worried that he might blind himself as well. But this possibility no longer applies when Brown is running away from the car. It seems to me that he could've used barely one second to locate and secure it before chasing after him. Then, when Brown allegedly came charging at him, he could spray it at him and temporarily blind him.
3) By Wilson's physical description from his testimony (about 6'4" and 210 pounds) and from pictures, he appears to be in good physical shape. Brown, as has been repeatedly noted, weighs 290 pounds. I don't believe someone that large can move particularly quickly. If nothing else, Wilson should have been easily fast enough to run away from Brown if he kept charging towards him and couldn't be brought down.
I don't know for sure if these would've worked in this instance, but it seems to me that they plausibly could have disabled Brown or at least slowed him down and allowed Wilson to evade him until backup arrived. I hardly think Wilson is justified in so boldly declaring that he wouldn't/couldn't have done anything differently.Learn to do right; seek justice. Defend the oppressed. Take up the cause of the fatherless; plead the case of the widow.--Isaiah 1:17
I don't think that all forms o[f] slavery are inherently immoral.--seer
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Originally posted by square_peg View PostI am not at all pleased by how Wilson told George Stephanopoulos that he wouldn't do anything different if it happened again.
It's entirely possible that, if his testimony is actually true and I was in his shoes, I would've panicked in the heat of the moment and shot Brown. But if I had a chance to re-do it, I would've racked my brain trying to come up with ways to survive and also NOT kill him.
A few things that come to mind:
1) Wilson said he wasn't carrying a taser. Well...if it happened again, couldn't he have carried one, and fired it instead of the gun when Brown allegedly came charging at him?
2) Wilson said he considered using mace, but then decided against it because in a confined space, he was worried that he might blind himself as well. But this possibility no longer applies when Brown is running away from the car. It seems to me that he could've used barely one second to locate and secure it before chasing after him. Then, when Brown allegedly came charging at him, he could spray it at him and temporarily blind him.
Early in my career, I used mace, and quickly abandoned it as an option because it doesn't take long to figure out that it only enrages the guy who is trying to get me. AND you have to allow for wind direction, distance, effectiveness.... most of us stopped carrying it.
3) By Wilson's physical description from his testimony (about 6'4" and 210 pounds) and from pictures, he appears to be in good physical shape. Brown, as has been repeatedly noted, weighs 290 pounds. I don't believe someone that large can move particularly quickly. If nothing else, Wilson should have been easily fast enough to run away from Brown if he kept charging towards him and couldn't be brought down.
I don't know for sure if these would've worked in this instance, but it seems to me that they plausibly could have disabled Brown or at least slowed him down and allowed Wilson to evade him until backup arrived. I hardly think Wilson is justified in so boldly declaring that he wouldn't/couldn't have done anything differently.
I am amazed and astounded.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostMeh.... you're asking a guy to Monday Morning Quarterback himself.... It's a classic "you made mistakes, didn't you" game.
But the fact remains --- you DON'T get a chance to re-do it.
He could have taken the day off and gone fishing!
Deadly force had already been used, and Brown was still coming at him. I don't think you have any concept whatsoever what it's like to be in a situation where you are in fear for your life. You are HARDLY thinking, at that point, what's the LEAST deadly thing I can do that MIGHT work.
Early in my career, I used mace, and quickly abandoned it as an option because it doesn't take long to figure out that it only enrages the guy who is trying to get me. AND you have to allow for wind direction, distance, effectiveness.... most of us stopped carrying it.
Wow.... let's add that to the Police Training Manual..... "if the subject keeps coming at you, just turn and run like hell!"
So, when I say you're just majorly playing Monday Morning Quarterback, you just double down and continue playing.
I am amazed and astounded.Learn to do right; seek justice. Defend the oppressed. Take up the cause of the fatherless; plead the case of the widow.--Isaiah 1:17
I don't think that all forms o[f] slavery are inherently immoral.--seer
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Originally posted by square_peg View PostYou're telling me that police mace is so ineffective that it only enrages the person, instead of doing what it's supposed to do and causing temporary blindness, body spasms and difficulty breathing so he can't see or physically function enough to get to you?
If the subject is unarmed, can't move particularly quickly, and you're in good shape, then why not?The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by square_peg View Post3) By Wilson's physical description from his testimony (about 6'4" and 210 pounds) and from pictures, he appears to be in good physical shape. Brown, as has been repeatedly noted, weighs 290 pounds. I don't believe someone that large can move particularly quickly. If nothing else, Wilson should have been easily fast enough to run away from Brown if he kept charging towards him and couldn't be brought down.We know J6 wasn’t peaceful because they didn’t set the building on fire.
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Originally posted by square_peg View PostYou're telling me that police mace is so ineffective that it only enrages the person, instead of doing what it's supposed to do and causing temporary blindness, body spasms and difficulty breathing so he can't see or physically function enough to get to you?"As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths." Isaiah 3:12
There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.
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Originally posted by alaskazimm View PostI don't know - those linemen that I watch on Sunday look like they're moving pretty darn fast.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Zymologist View PostI have seen big, heavy guys move freaky fast.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostI have been in many situations where what they taught you in the police academy just doesn't pan out in real life. You're majorly playing monday morning quarterback, and not doing so well at it.
Originally posted by Cow PokeI would love to see how YOU would have handled the situation... not what you SAY you would do, but when it actually comes down to it, how you would react. Meanwhile, spewing forth ignorance doesn't qualify as "fruitful discussion".
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Originally posted by whag View PostThat's all I can do.
Really dumb statement coming........
More intelligent cops have defused more tense situations. If you can't acknowledge that, that's your issue. Give it a rest.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by whag View PostI don't think this cop had the temprement and intelliegence to de-escalate a complicated situation, and because of that, we're dealing with a huge mess.
If you're so sure a 'better' cop could have done this better, then tell me how to de-escalate the situation. I'm all ears.
Just remember: (1) retreat is not an option (you're a cop and you're trying to arrest Brown for assaulting you...not to mention that whole robbery thing) and (2) have a friend punch you in the face before you start to consider your options.
And if you question the mentality related to retreat and fighting to win...this is the reason.
Officer Reston (Will to Win)Last edited by myth; 11-27-2014, 09:50 PM."If you believe, take the first step, it leads to Jesus Christ. If you don't believe, take the first step all the same, for you are bidden to take it. No one wants to know about your faith or unbelief, your orders are to perform the act of obedience on the spot. Then you will find yourself in the situation where faith becomes possible and where faith exists in the true sense of the word." - Dietrich Bonhoeffer, The Cost of Discipleship
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Originally posted by myth View PostI think this is the single most ignorant comment I've read about the entire incident, bar none.
If you're so sure a 'better' cop could have done this better, then tell me how to de-escalate the situation. I'm all ears.
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