Ferguson Grand Jury...

[Jedidiah]

Obviously, more dangerous situations have been defused by better cops.

Examples?

[Cow Poke]

If I have to tell you how to avoid death in that situation, this likely won't be a fruitful discussion.

I have been in many situations where what they taught you in the police academy just doesn't pan out in real life. You're majorly playing monday morning quarterback, and not doing so well at it.

Obviously, more dangerous situations have been defused by better cops.

I would love to see how YOU would have handled the situation... not what you SAY you would do, but when it actually comes down to it, how you would react. Meanwhile, spewing forth ignorance doesn't qualify as "fruitful discussion".

[fm93]

I would love to see how YOU would have handled the situation... not what you SAY you would do, but when it actually comes down to it, how you would react. Meanwhile, spewing forth ignorance doesn't qualify as "fruitful discussion".

I am not at all pleased by how Wilson told George Stephanopoulos that he wouldn't do anything different if it happened again. It's entirely possible that, if his testimony is actually true and I was in his shoes, I would've panicked in the heat of the moment and shot Brown. But if I had a chance to re-do it, I would've racked my brain trying to come up with ways to survive and also NOT kill him.

A few things that come to mind:

1) Wilson said he wasn't carrying a taser. Well...if it happened again, couldn't he have carried one, and fired it instead of the gun when Brown allegedly came charging at him?

2) Wilson said he considered using mace, but then decided against it because in a confined space, he was worried that he might blind himself as well. But this possibility no longer applies when Brown is running away from the car. It seems to me that he could've used barely one second to locate and secure it before chasing after him. Then, when Brown allegedly came charging at him, he could spray it at him and temporarily blind him.

3) By Wilson's physical description from his testimony (about 6'4" and 210 pounds) and from pictures, he appears to be in good physical shape. Brown, as has been repeatedly noted, weighs 290 pounds. I don't believe someone that large can move particularly quickly. If nothing else, Wilson should have been easily fast enough to run away from Brown if he kept charging towards him and couldn't be brought down.

I don't know for sure if these would've worked in this instance, but it seems to me that they plausibly could have disabled Brown or at least slowed him down and allowed Wilson to evade him until backup arrived. I hardly think Wilson is justified in so boldly declaring that he wouldn't/couldn't have done anything differently.

[Cow Poke]

I am not at all pleased by how Wilson told George Stephanopoulos that he wouldn't do anything different if it happened again.

Meh.... you're asking a guy to Monday Morning Quarterback himself.... It's a classic "you made mistakes, didn't you" game.

It's entirely possible that, if his testimony is actually true and I was in his shoes, I would've panicked in the heat of the moment and shot Brown. But if I had a chance to re-do it, I would've racked my brain trying to come up with ways to survive and also NOT kill him.

But the fact remains --- you DON'T get a chance to re-do it.

A few things that come to mind:

1) Wilson said he wasn't carrying a taser. Well...if it happened again, couldn't he have carried one, and fired it instead of the gun when Brown allegedly came charging at him?

He could have taken the day off and gone fishing!

2) Wilson said he considered using mace, but then decided against it because in a confined space, he was worried that he might blind himself as well. But this possibility no longer applies when Brown is running away from the car. It seems to me that he could've used barely one second to locate and secure it before chasing after him. Then, when Brown allegedly came charging at him, he could spray it at him and temporarily blind him.

Deadly force had already been used, and Brown was still coming at him. I don't think you have any concept whatsoever what it's like to be in a situation where you are in fear for your life. You are HARDLY thinking, at that point, what's the LEAST deadly thing I can do that MIGHT work.

Early in my career, I used mace, and quickly abandoned it as an option because it doesn't take long to figure out that it only enrages the guy who is trying to get me. AND you have to allow for wind direction, distance, effectiveness.... most of us stopped carrying it.

3) By Wilson's physical description from his testimony (about 6'4" and 210 pounds) and from pictures, he appears to be in good physical shape. Brown, as has been repeatedly noted, weighs 290 pounds. I don't believe someone that large can move particularly quickly. If nothing else, Wilson should have been easily fast enough to run away from Brown if he kept charging towards him and couldn't be brought down.

Wow.... let's add that to the Police Training Manual..... "if the subject keeps coming at you, just turn and run like hell!"

I don't know for sure if these would've worked in this instance, but it seems to me that they plausibly could have disabled Brown or at least slowed him down and allowed Wilson to evade him until backup arrived. I hardly think Wilson is justified in so boldly declaring that he wouldn't/couldn't have done anything differently.

So, when I say you're just majorly playing Monday Morning Quarterback, you just double down and continue playing.

I am amazed and astounded.

[fm93]

Meh.... you're asking a guy to Monday Morning Quarterback himself.... It's a classic "you made mistakes, didn't you" game.

If he did in fact make mistakes, then he is obligated to himself, to justice, and to the community to do that.

But the fact remains --- you DON'T get a chance to re-do it.

But I wouldn't be so boldly declaring (especially on an interview that I knew would air on national TV) that I wouldn't have done anything differently.

He could have taken the day off and gone fishing!

Or he could've tried using a non-lethal method of force that would prevent Brown from getting away from robbery or injuring anyone, and also keep him alive.

Deadly force had already been used, and Brown was still coming at him. I don't think you have any concept whatsoever what it's like to be in a situation where you are in fear for your life. You are HARDLY thinking, at that point, what's the LEAST deadly thing I can do that MIGHT work.

But I ought to. That's the thing. I personally might've done exactly what Wilson did in that situation, but it doesn't change the fact that I should've done something else. I believe one is justified in using deadly force only when no literally other option exists, and it's hardly clear that no other option existed.

Early in my career, I used mace, and quickly abandoned it as an option because it doesn't take long to figure out that it only enrages the guy who is trying to get me. AND you have to allow for wind direction, distance, effectiveness.... most of us stopped carrying it.

You're telling me that police mace is so ineffective that it only enrages the person, instead of doing what it's supposed to do and causing temporary blindness, body spasms and difficulty breathing so he can't see or physically function enough to get to you?

Wow.... let's add that to the Police Training Manual..... "if the subject keeps coming at you, just turn and run like hell!"

If the subject is unarmed, can't move particularly quickly, and you're in good shape, then why not?

So, when I say you're just majorly playing Monday Morning Quarterback, you just double down and continue playing.

I am amazed and astounded.

Performing critical and rigorous self-evaluation to see how one could've prevented any deaths from occurring is absolutely the correct thing to do, no matter what you want to call it.

[Cow Poke]

You're telling me that police mace is so ineffective that it only enrages the person, instead of doing what it's supposed to do and causing temporary blindness, body spasms and difficulty breathing so he can't see or physically function enough to get to you?

Yes, as somebody who WAS a police officer, and who is actively involved with police activity, as opposed to somebody who just reads stuff and spews forth ignorance, I'm telling you that there are times when mace is a very bad idea. It's covered in the police training, and is why tasers were invented and are being deployed INSTEAD of mace in so many departments.

If the subject is unarmed, can't move particularly quickly, and you're in good shape, then why not?

I praise God that people like you don't sign up to be cops.

[alaskazimm]

3) By Wilson's physical description from his testimony (about 6'4" and 210 pounds) and from pictures, he appears to be in good physical shape. Brown, as has been repeatedly noted, weighs 290 pounds. I don't believe someone that large can move particularly quickly. If nothing else, Wilson should have been easily fast enough to run away from Brown if he kept charging towards him and couldn't be brought down.

I don't know - those linemen that I watch on Sunday look like they're moving pretty darn fast.

[Darth Executor]

You're telling me that police mace is so ineffective that it only enrages the person, instead of doing what it's supposed to do and causing temporary blindness, body spasms and difficulty breathing so he can't see or physically function enough to get to you?

The point is that it's not worth the risk. Wilson (or anybody else) should not risk his own life to protect the life of a guy who created the incident in the first place. Nevermind that all this assumes that this incident had a planning phase where officer Wilson could decide on what to do, like it was a video game. Watching the posts of people like you and whag is genuinely surreal. It's like we don't even live in the same universe.

[Cow Poke]

I don't know - those linemen that I watch on Sunday look like they're moving pretty darn fast.

Maybe square_peg thinks that if a black guy is big he must be slow and dumb.

[Zymologist]

I have seen big, heavy guys move freaky fast.

[Cow Poke]

I have seen big, heavy guys move freaky fast.

Yeah, and that momentum is hard to stop. I had one come running out of a bar with a pool stick in his hand threatening to kill any cops who tried to take him... he ran so hard and fast, that my basic defensive judo throw had him flying across the hood of my patrol vehicle, landing him upside down on the pavement, and shattering his heel bone. It really surprised me, and ended me up in court on a brutality charge!

[whag]

I have been in many situations where what they taught you in the police academy just doesn't pan out in real life. You're majorly playing monday morning quarterback, and not doing so well at it.

That's all I can do.

I would love to see how YOU would have handled the situation... not what you SAY you would do, but when it actually comes down to it, how you would react. Meanwhile, spewing forth ignorance doesn't qualify as "fruitful discussion".

More intelligent cops have defused more tense situations. If you can't acknowledge that, that's your issue. Give it a rest.

[Cow Poke]

That's all I can do.

Because you ENJOY exercises in futility?

Really dumb statement coming........

More intelligent cops have defused more tense situations. If you can't acknowledge that, that's your issue. Give it a rest.

[myth]

I don't think this cop had the temprement and intelliegence to de-escalate a complicated situation, and because of that, we're dealing with a huge mess.

I think this is the single most ignorant comment I've read about the entire incident, bar none.

If you're so sure a 'better' cop could have done this better, then tell me how to de-escalate the situation. I'm all ears.

Just remember: (1) retreat is not an option (you're a cop and you're trying to arrest Brown for assaulting you...not to mention that whole robbery thing) and (2) have a friend punch you in the face before you start to consider your options.

And if you question the mentality related to retreat and fighting to win...this is the reason.

Officer Reston (Will to Win)

[Epoetker]

I think this is the single most ignorant comment I've read about the entire incident, bar none.

If you're so sure a 'better' cop could have done this better, then tell me how to de-escalate the situation. I'm all ears.

I predict this story will involve improbable coolness, dead aim, speaking the language of the street, a heartfelt soliloquy, and a pair of DEAL WITH IT shades descending on the mystery officer's face as he walks away, leaving everyone a better person.