Ferguson Grand Jury...

[Epoetker]

This is your biggest problem --- you don't deal in FACT, you PRESUME way too much.

Nah, the big bad word in that sentence was "certification program," the presumption of whose efficiency is the real problem.

So why don't officers use the types with longer ranges?

Because you very seldom have 35 feet of secure space to run to when making a spur-of-the-moment arrest, and people may decide to chase you if you run. Play some vidya games with a limited inventory system until you figure out what "optimal loadout" means, then try to make that loadout immediately belt-accessible in real life.

[fm93]

I bet if lilpixieofterror had lived in ancient Egypt circa 1300 BC, she would've been fine with executing Moses after he killed the Egyptian man.

[fm93]

The first shot was IN THE PATROL VEHICLE.... are you REALLY THAT DENSE?

The context of my post should've made it clear that I was referring to firing when Brown was allegedly charging at him from quite a distance away. Are you really that dense?

This is your biggest problem --- you don't deal in FACT, you PRESUME way too much.

And it should've been clear from the context of that post that my tone was sarcastic. Unless, of course, you're asking me to believe that the Berkeley police force DIDN'T undergo a certification program?

[lilpixieofterror]

I bet if lilpixieofterror had lived in ancient Egypt circa 1300 BC, she would've been fine with executing Moses after he killed the Egyptian man.

Yep, when you can't refute what a person says, dive straight into character assassination because you can't refute what was actually said. And I'm sure if you would have been talking about how nice the Egyptians were; while they were killing all of those baby boy's. Gosh, that was easy. No wonder you do this. No thinking or refutations involved. Come back when you can deal with the objections brought forth instead of defending criminals that want to cause serious bodily harm to people.

[Cow Poke]

The context of my post should've made it clear that I was referring to firing when Brown was allegedly charging at him from quite a distance away.

TOTALLY beside the point! The encounter BEGAN with the officer getting punched in the face, then the discharge of his duty weapon as a result of Brown trying to take it from him.

And it should've been clear from the context of that post that my tone was sarcastic. Unless, of course, you're asking me to believe that the Berkeley police force DIDN'T undergo a certification program?

Doesn't matter -- you STILL have this Brown / Wilson thing all wrong, so ALL of your "logic" fails because none of it is based on actual FACT.

[Epoetker]

I bet if lilpixieofterror had lived in ancient Egypt circa 1300 BC, she would've been fine with executing Moses after he killed the Egyptian man.

And she would have been right if all she knew was that a Prince of Egypt had murdered a man in broad daylight. The LORD preserves whom he will preserve, and has compassion on whom he will have compassion. But arguing against a general morality by the supernatural privileges, rescues, and protections of selected individuals is a very common liberal tactic, and needs to stop. Those who have reverence for neither law nor nature will not find refuge in the times when the Author of both acted in human history.

[KingsGambit]

And she would have been right if all she knew was that a Prince of Egypt had murdered a man in broad daylight. The LORD preserves whom he will preserve, and has compassion on whom he will have compassion. But arguing against a general morality by the supernatural privileges, rescues, and protections of selected individuals is a very common liberal tactic, and needs to stop. Those who have reverence for neither law nor nature will not find refuge in the times when the Author of both acted in human history.

So since there is no statute of limitation on murder, now or presumably then, at one point would said action have ceased to be justified?

[myth]

The first source was from police, who presumably also went through a certification program and have seen reactions in real life.

I am a police officer. Sorry if I didn't make that clear. I've said so in other posts, so I thought you knew.

So why don't officers use the types with longer ranges?

As I mentioned in my earlier post, the minimum practical deployment distance is too far. Basically, the probes start out very close together on the cartridge. The top probe travels straight, and the bottom probe travels at angle that is offset from the top probe. With the 35' cartridges, the angle is smaller (to allow accuracy at greater distances). But this means that at close range, the probe spread is not likely to be far enough apart to complete a good circuit. (If the probe spread is inadequate, pain is induced but there is no neuro-muscular lock-up.)

Also, I believe the 35' cartridges are larger than the 21' ones (though don't quote me on that). I doubt they'd fit into the standard taser holster.

[Cow Poke]

I am a police officer. Sorry if I didn't make that clear. I've said so in other posts, so I thought you knew.




As I mentioned in my earlier post, the minimum practical deployment distance is too far. Basically, the probes start out very close together on the cartridge. The top probe travels straight, and the bottom probe travels at angle that is offset from the top probe. With the 35' cartridges, the angle is smaller (to allow accuracy at greater distances). But this means that at close range, the probe spread is not likely to be far enough apart to complete a good circuit. (If the probe spread is inadequate, pain is induced but there is no neuro-muscular lock-up.)

Also, I believe the 35' cartridges are larger than the 21' ones (though don't quote me on that). I doubt they'd fit into the standard taser holster.

Good information. Since I'm no longer active duty police officer (I still serve as a chaplain, and reserve deputy) I haven't had the more recent taser training. HOWEVER, I'm familiar with a lot of guys who have, and their biggest complaint about the long range taser is that at that distance, the subject has to be standing dead still, there can be no wind, your aim has to be dead on, and you have to expect the subject not to flinch or dodge.

Nobody I know thinks that a taser at 35 feet is practical.

I think SP got some of his "info" from the manufacturer who will ALWAYS give you "best case scenario" (they're trying to sell a product!), and in the case of Mace that I cited earlier, they got a little TOO optimistic and had to be smacked down by the FTC.

[robrecht]

I think SP got some of his "info" from the manufacturer who will ALWAYS give you "best case scenario" (they're trying to sell a product!), and in the case of Mace that I cited earlier, they got a little TOO optimistic and had to be smacked down by the FTC.

Wait a minute. Are you telling me that the federal government is interfering with the freedom of speech of private enterprise, the job-producers, to advertise their products any way they see fit? What is this country coming to? I'm glad I found this thread.

[Cow Poke]

Wait a minute. Are you telling me that the federal government is interfering with the freedom of speech of private enterprise, the job-producers, to advertise their products any way they see fit? What is this country coming to? I'm glad I found this thread.

Smartybritches!

Yeah, Mace was making claims it couldn't support, and got called on it.

MEANWHILE, I can hook you up with some special tonic water that will make you taller, thinner, smarter and better looking! PM me for more information!

[Darth Executor]

Wait a minute. Are you telling me that the federal government is interfering with the freedom of speech of private enterprise, the job-producers, to advertise their products any way they see fit? What is this country coming to? I'm glad I found this thread.

Fraud is freedom of speech. Liberals say the darnest things.

[Epoetker]

So since there is no statute of limitation on murder, now or presumably then, at one point would said action have ceased to be justified?

Though the anger may be righteous, the act itself never was justified, under Egyptian or Jewish law. The punishment for these acts was traditionally death or exile, the second of which Moses imposed on himself immediately following the act, and Moses had the bonus restitution of leading the Israelites through the desert, while not entering into The Promised Land himself due to...surprise, surprise, his own furious temper. The type of man who kills another in a rage is also the type who may twist the words of God in a rage. One may say that God forgave him the ultimate penalty for this act in both that life and the next, but in general, while the murder of the slave-driver is understood, it is never justified.

(The Prince of Egypt movie had the PG version of the death, accidental fall, which may have been better for kids but rather blunts the impact of the story. It's been a while since I've seen The Ten Commandments, here's hoping Exodus: Gods and Kings has one that hews closer to the spirit of the text, given that Christian "American Psycho" Bale is playing Moses.)

[Sparko]

Ferguson protestors call for a boycott of Black Friday. I'm all FOR it! Less vehicles on the streets and my wife won't complain about the crowds!

Considering the Ferguson folk already got their shopping (looting) done early.

[Cow Poke]

So, for all the Monday Morning Quarterbacking endlessly asking what Wilson could have done differently.....

The one thing that I can see he COULD have done differently is, after having engaged Brown and his partner in crime the first time, and noticing Brown matched the description of the robber, Wilson COULD have not backed up to re-engage.

Now, in HINDSIGHT, that would probably have been a good idea, and call for backup.

HOWEVER... Wilson had NO way of knowing that this thug would brazenly approach the patrol vehicle, block Wilson IN the vehicle, punch him in the face, and try to take his duty weapon. That's not a scenario that is taught in police school. Maybe NOW it will, but I have never heard of a case like that, where the criminal was so aggressive as to attack the officer before he can even exit his vehicle.

This, therefore, is a testament to Brown's character. (And it is consistent with Brown's behavior in the way he treated the store clerk -- brutish aggression, and intimidation)

"Hands up" like H-E-DoubleHockySticks!