Texas School Slaughter...

[Cow Poke]

So in your opinion, everything seems to come down to just one local cop? All the decisions flowed from that one local cop?

No, not really. There were a whole bunch of things that went wrong.

I'm actually questioning the wisdom of the "on scene commander" concept --- it was other cops who, apparently, decided NOT to accept his authority as "on scene commander" who brought this to a close, and the outcome could have been much less gruesome had they done so earlier.

This goes back to the whole "turf wars" thing.

[Cow Poke]

I'm not too confident in law enforcement at this point. If they "screwed up" this much, why would I be confident we'll get all the facts in the aftermath, as opposed to them trying to cover up what they can?

We saw the Director of the DPS fully admit that there were a number of things that were reported that simply were not true. There is video footage from the school's security cameras, which is why we know the door was propped open by a teacher.

To me, it took a lot of courage for the DPS director to very clearly state that the School's Police Chief made a bad decision. He started getting things back on track by citing the 911 transcripts and video. And Governor Abbott is furious that he was put in the position of giving false information because of what he was told from the beginning.

I'm pretty confident that this will be very meticulously investigated and reported.

[tabibito]

No, not really. There were a whole bunch of things that went wrong.

I'm actually questioning the wisdom of the "on scene commander" concept --- it was other cops who, apparently, decided NOT to accept his authority as "on scene commander" who brought this to a close, and the outcome could have been much less gruesome had they done so earlier.

This goes back to the whole "turf wars" thing.

There was one thing that went right. Those children who put themselves at risk to make phone calls. Some sort of recognition for that would be well and truly in order, I think.

[Cow Poke]

There was one thing that went right. Those children who put themselves at risk to make phone calls. Some sort of recognition for that would be well and truly in order, I think.

IF ONLY..... while those kids were on the phone with dispatch, dispatch would be communicating with the "on scene commander" - and coordinating a response instead of declaring this a "barricaded suspect" situation.

IF ONLY.... dispatch had asked one of those children for some useful information.... is he standing up? are any students standing up? where, in the room, is he?.....

IF ONLY.... there was some useful communication through dispatch to the officers "in the stack"....

But, yes --- God bless those children!

[Christianbookworm]

Takes less than an hour to bleed out. Why did they not get in sonner? Did they somehow not think through that there were dying people in need of medical aid asap? Just fritter away the golden hour outside????

[rogue06]

but that's no reason to run around with a lightning rod during a thunderstorm.

Hmm. Maybe I should cancel that order of lightning rod umbrellas while there is still time. smiley hmm.gif

Umbrella_fitted_with_lightning_conductor.jpg

[Cow Poke]

Takes less than an hour to bleed out. Why did they not get in sonner? Did they somehow not think through that there were dying people in need of medical aid asap? Just fritter away the golden hour outside????

For what it's worth, the school police chief guy, for whatever reason, believed that the "active shooter" phase had ended, and they had plenty of time to wait out the gunman.

Obviously, he was dead wrong about that, but it's the decision he made, and, for a time, others allowed him to maintain control.

[Cow Poke]

So, back to the active shooter training that supposedly took place just 2 months prior... [bolding mine]

UVALDE, Texas -- According to ABC News, the six member police force for the Uvalde Consolidated Independent School District went through active shooter training just two months before the massacre at Robb Elementary.

The Texas Commission on Law Enforcement, which developed the training, certification, and course for the "Active Shooter Response for School-Based Law Enforcement," says the course is a requirement for all police officers who work in schools and, in the wake of the mass shooting, will review the materials and see how to equip officers best.

The course manual details the priorities for school-based law enforcement and explicitly says that first responders "will usually be required to place themselves in harm's way and display uncommon acts of courage to save the innocent."

A "priority of life scale" ranks innocent victims at the top, followed by first responders and offenders. It also says, "a first responder unwilling to place the lives of the innocent above their own safety should consider another career field."

Over and over it is drilled into first responders in an active shooter situation that their number one priority is to neutralize the threat, even if it means bypassing injured people and ignoring cries for help - that the first persons in have a singular focus of stopping the shooter, and others coming in behind them can deal with the injured, and help other innocent people escape the scene.

[Cow Poke]

And, somebody asked about this earlier...

A Uvalde officer said 'there was almost a mutiny' outside of Texas elementary school as team debated ignoring order to not go in: report

A police officer with the Uvalde Consolidated Independent School District said there was almost a "mutiny" as officers outside Robbs Elementary School almost ignored orders not to enter the school, People reported.

The unnamed officer told the outlet that while Pete Arredondo, the department's chief believed that the shooter was barricaded in an empty classroom, there was still no excuse to order police not to enter.

"There was almost a mutiny," the officer told People. "We were like, 'There's a f---ing gunman in the school, we hear gunshots, and we're just going to stand here with our thumbs up our ******?' We wanted to go in and save lives. It was the most frustrating situation of my entire career."

Bringing me, once again, to wonder if this whole "on scene commander" doctrine will be reevaluated. ONE MAN should not be able to hold up an entire operation where officers are willing - ITCHING - to get in and neutralize the threat even at their own peril and know they are risking their own lives.

[KingsGambit]

This shouldn't go over well: John Cornyn says that questioning the police response is off limits.

https://thehill.com/news/senate/3505...ng-and-unfair/

[Cow Poke]

This shouldn't go over well: John Cornyn says that questioning the police response is off limits.

https://thehill.com/news/senate/3505...ng-and-unfair/

Wow --- can't disagree more. In fact, the Director of the Texas DPS thought it was so important to get the fact straight that he very clearly said that the school's police chief made a bad decision.

Columbine was the event that completely changed the active shooter doctrine, because we learned from failures and mistakes. It's not "second guessing" or "pointing fingers" - it's simply "look what went wrong and how can we prevent that from happening in the future".

Maybe Cornyn is trying to be "pro police" and "back the blue" - but when somebody screws up so badly that there's almost a mutiny in the ranks, that needs to be called out, and learned from.

[Cow Poke]

This shouldn't go over well: John Cornyn says that questioning the police response is off limits.

https://thehill.com/news/senate/3505...ng-and-unfair/

Even that last paragraph....

“There will be plenty of time to sort this out later,” Cornyn said in his post, adding that the focus should be on the investigation and how to prevent tragedies in the future.

How VALUABLE is it to recognize the error of changing the tactical response from "active shooter" to "barricaded subject" when there is, indeed, still shooting going on?

[KingsGambit]

Even that last paragraph....

“There will be plenty of time to sort this out later,” Cornyn said in his post, adding that the focus should be on the investigation and how to prevent tragedies in the future.

How VALUABLE is it to recognize the error of changing the tactical response from "active shooter" to "barricaded subject" when there is, indeed, still shooting going on?

Maybe he's trying to be consistent in calling out people on the other side who call for gun reform, saying that it's too soon for that as well?

To be honest, I don't get that beyond using it as an excuse to avoid action. When 9/11 happened, the Bush Administration didn't say it was too soon to go after terror in the Middle East. If people don't want to change the status quo, I'd rather they just be upfront about it.

[NorrinRadd]

283701354_10160489650484203_7982610167742800635_n.jpg

Wait... Isn't that just the "reserve tank," so that when the rotating thingie is empty, you just flip a switch and the reserve refills it?

[seanD]

And, somebody asked about this earlier...

A Uvalde officer said 'there was almost a mutiny' outside of Texas elementary school as team debated ignoring order to not go in: report

A police officer with the Uvalde Consolidated Independent School District said there was almost a "mutiny" as officers outside Robbs Elementary School almost ignored orders not to enter the school, People reported.

The unnamed officer told the outlet that while Pete Arredondo, the department's chief believed that the shooter was barricaded in an empty classroom, there was still no excuse to order police not to enter.

"There was almost a mutiny," the officer told People. "We were like, 'There's a f---ing gunman in the school, we hear gunshots, and we're just going to stand here with our thumbs up our ******?' We wanted to go in and save lives. It was the most frustrating situation of my entire career."

Bringing me, once again, to wonder if this whole "on scene commander" doctrine will be reevaluated. ONE MAN should not be able to hold up an entire operation where officers are willing - ITCHING - to get in and neutralize the threat even at their own peril and know they are risking their own lives.

There's really no reason for anyone to believe this. This could just be them covering up the fact they were cowards and using a scapegoat as cover. Most folks that are that "itching" to respond just defy the orders and act, like the border cop apparently did.