Ferguson shooting indictment announcement coming at 9PM EST

[fm93]

Sorry, but witness statements say otherwise. He had already been assaulted once by a man 50% more than his body weight, and that same person was charging toward him again in a "football" rush. He had EVERY right to expect he was in serious danger again when Brown was moving toward him.

Assuming this is true, a gun was the only thing he thought to use when Brown was still quite a distance away...despite his claim that when Brown was right in front of him and throwing punches, the gun was the last thing that he thought to use.

he had 17 years to repent. He had his chances.

Jeffrey Dahmer committed significantly more gruesome and numerous crimes and received twice that much time...and ultimately may have repented in the end. Being content with seventeen years hardly seems fair or compassionate.

[fm93]

So, the eyewitnesses all lied? And the blood spatter patterns? And the shell casings?

Eyewitnesses didn't unanimously agree with Wilson's account--wouldn't be accurate to classify as they ALL lied. The blood spatter patterns (unless I've missed something) don't necessarily prove that Brown was full-on charging at him. Not sure what the shell casings are supposed to mean.

I'm sorry, square peg...but you're way off in the deep end on this one.

Believing that all people inherently have a right to life, regardless of what they may have done, is "way off in the deep end?"

[Darth Executor]

Assuming this is true, a gun was the only thing he thought to use when Brown was still quite a distance away...despite his claim that when Brown was right in front of him and throwing punches, the gun was the last thing that he thought to use.

Yes, gun in punching range is a dangerous idea since it can be stolen from you (as Wilson found out). Gun from long distance is good because you can shoot the guy if he tries anything. Seems perfectly reasonable to humans from planet Earth.

Believing that all people inherently have a right to life, regardless of what they may have done, is "way off in the deep end?"

All people except for Officer Wilson who should have risked his life to keep the guy who assaulted and tried to kill him alive at any cost.

[rogue06]

Yes, gun in punching range is a dangerous idea since it can be stolen from you (as Wilson found out). Gun from long distance is good because you can shoot the guy if he tries anything. Seems perfectly reasonable to humans from planet Earth.

The biggest advantage of a firearm is its advantage to "reach out and touch someone" without putting its user in danger of being struck, grabbed or otherwise physically attacked.

One thing that you see in the movies or on TV is that always bugged me is that it appears mandatory that the person armed with a firearm must, absolutely must, come into physical contact with whoever they are covering so that they can be disarmed.

[myth]

Believing that all people inherently have a right to life, regardless of what they may have done, is "way off in the deep end?"

Not at all. Your belief is spot-on. Your analysis of the situation we've been discussing, however, is so far off the mark that I find myself wondering what planet you're from.

[Sparko]

So the fact that they had such a short limit and that he only had one training session before going out to do a job in which he might need to use a taser is a problem, isn't it?

considering they just got the tazers, no.

Right...but then, according to Wilson's own testimony, Brown started running away. It takes barely a second to locate and secure the pepper spray before getting out of the car to chase after him.

And you know this because of your vast knowledge of pepper spray and police work?

He just tried to grab Wilson's gun and slammed him in the car. Excuse him if it took him too long to play TV cop fast enough for you.

I'm not. Although aspects of Wilson's testimony personally sound far-fetched to me, I'm going along with them for now, since, you know, Brown can't offer his side of the story. I'm just trying to figure out what could've been done to keep Brown from dying.

Yes, you are making excuses for him. See above.

Again, for now I'm accepting his testimony, although technically, he said that they were moving out of the street when he noticed the cigarillos. It was at that point that he drove back around and cut them off to confront them.


Once again, I am accepting the explanation for now. Additionally, I can believe that he was the perpetrator and a victim.


Yes, and in real life, mace and tasers exist precisely to slow down and stop someone who's threatening you.


That's what I'm disputing. Wilson has every right to self-defense, but I'm still hesitant to declare that he should've used deadly (rather than simply disabling) force.

If we truly consider ourselves pro-life, then we have to consistently apply this great value and regard for life to everyone, not just to the unborn. The mere fact that a person's life was being threatened does not give that person the right to end the life of the one threatening him, unless literally every other option has been exhausted...and I'm not sure that was the case.

1. Tazers don't always work. They have to penetrate the clothing, they have to stick. And they have to actually take down the guy. My brother told me that when they were training on tazers, they had one guy that fought through it. And as far as pepper spray goes, there are some people who can fight through that, and some that it does not affect at all. Wilson already knew his life was in danger because Brown had already tried to get his gun. His training was to meet deadly threat with deadly force and he did so. No matter what you think or how much you want to be an armchair quarterback, you were not there. The witnesses corroborated Wilson's testimony. All you have is "well I think he should have been able to blah blah blah"

[fm93]

considering they just got the tazers, no.

Then they clearly weren't a very well-prepared department.

And you know this because of your vast knowledge of pepper spray and police work?

He just tried to grab Wilson's gun and slammed him in the car. Excuse him if it took him too long to play TV cop fast enough for you.

I can't excuse that, because police officers have to be held to higher standards than civilians and have to be able to think quickly under pressure. He apparently made up his mind after the initial scare that he was going to use deadly force no matter what, which is a problem.

1. Tazers don't always work. They have to penetrate the clothing, they have to stick. And they have to actually take down the guy. My brother told me that when they were training on tazers, they had one guy that fought through it. And as far as pepper spray goes, there are some people who can fight through that, and some that it does not affect at all.

And sometimes a charging suspect is wearing bulletproof material or is agile enough to (combined with a shaky hand from the shooter) dodge bullets. Citing rare instances in which something might not work is hardly good reason to not even consider using it.

Wilson already knew his life was in danger because Brown had already tried to get his gun.

Yes, and then Brown RAN AWAY without the gun and was quite a distance from Wilson, and hence AFTER the initial scuffle, Wilson's life was no longer in immediate danger. You shouldn't be allowed to shoot someone who isn't currently immediately threatening you just because earlier he was immediately threatening you.

His training was to meet deadly threat with deadly force and he did so.

And it doesn't once even cross your mind that the police training standards could be flawed and wrong? Instead, you just accept police training standards as divinely-revealed dogma?

No matter what you think or how much you want to be an armchair quarterback, you were not there. The witnesses corroborated Wilson's testimony. All you have is "well I think he should have been able to blah blah blah"

My analysis was done entirely within the bounds of his testimony.

[Darth Executor]

Yes, and then Brown RAN AWAY without the gun and was quite a distance from Wilson, and hence AFTER the initial scuffle, Wilson's life was no longer in immediate danger. You shouldn't be allowed to shoot someone who isn't currently immediately threatening you just because earlier he was immediately threatening you.

Yes you should. Especially if you're a cop and you have a duty to make sure someone like that isn't a threat to the public.

[Bill the Cat]

Yes you should. Especially if you're a cop and you have a duty to make sure someone like that isn't a threat to the public.

Plus, Wilson didn't shoot again until Brown turned BACK around and charged him. That, for some reason, peggie keeps skipping over.

[lilpixieofterror]

Yes, and then Brown RAN AWAY without the gun and was quite a distance from Wilson, and hence AFTER the initial scuffle, Wilson's life was no longer in immediate danger. You shouldn't be allowed to shoot someone who isn't currently immediately threatening you just because earlier he was immediately threatening you.

You know, your majesty, you need to stop making a fool of yourself and ignoring things you don't want to hear. Brown wasn't shot again until AFTER he turned around and AFTER he started to charge Officer Wilson. A fact that seems to escape you because you don't care about the truth. Anyway, this entire thing is a real simple concept that even you can understand (and one found in the Bible):

You reap what you sew.

If you live a life steeped in violence (like strong arm robbing a convince store or attacking a police officer), there is a real possibility that same sort of violence can be returned onto you. Instead of trying to defend a man that and chosen a life of violence, perhaps you should condemn violence for the soul sucking thing it truly is. As long as people glorify this sort of stuff, make excuses for it, etc. it will continue.

[fm93]

Plus, Wilson didn't shoot again until Brown turned BACK around and charged him. That, for some reason, peggie keeps skipping over.

Sort of like how my username is clearly "square_peg" but you keep skipping over that fact?

Besides, I'm not skipping over it. I'm aware that Wilson claimed that Brown was charging at him, but because Brown was unarmed, he STILL wasn't an immediate threat while doing that--he'd have to be within striking distance to again constitute such a threat. I'm also aware that Wilson claimed that the fatal shot was fired when Brown was eight to ten feet away, but he started firing well before Brown entered that zone.

[One Bad Pig]

Besides, I'm not skipping over it. I'm aware that Wilson claimed that Brown was charging at him, but because Brown was unarmed, he STILL wasn't an immediate threat while doing that--he'd have to be within striking distance to again constitute such a threat. I'm also aware that Wilson claimed that the fatal shot was fired when Brown was eight to ten feet away, but he started firing well before Brown entered that zone.

So he should've waited until he got within arms' length to allow the odds to even a little, even after Brown had already gone after his gun once?

[fm93]

So he should've waited until he got within arms' length to allow the odds to even a little, even after Brown had already gone after his gun once?

Well, no; that's why I've argued in nearly all my posts in this thread that Wilson could've tased (and thereby should've brought a taser) or sprayed pepper spray at Brown before he could get into striking range.

[One Bad Pig]

Well, no; that's why I've argued in nearly all my posts in this thread that Wilson could've tased (and thereby should've brought a taser) or sprayed pepper spray at Brown before he could get into striking range.

Did he have a taser or pepper spray? Not that either of those is fool-proof. Brown knew Wilson had a gun pointed at him, yet still charged him anyway; I'm not sure less than deadly force would've fazed him.

[Psychic Missile]

This whole Ferguson incident, and the responses in this thread. highlight(s) the disturbing fact that many Americans just can't imagine solutions to a problem that don't involve a gun.