Originally posted by square_peg
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Originally posted by square_peg View PostTase him, perhaps. Use pepper spray. Things like that.
Defending one's self from attack shouldn't have to result in killing the attacker.
I'll defer to those who have actual experience in these kinds of things (Do you?), but AFAIK it's a lot easier to come up with 'reasonable options' from the sidelines, in your armchair, that it is when you're the one facing down an angry 250 pound guy. Officer Wilson already had his gun drawn, had fired shots, and (as far as we know) the threat of possibly being shot (again?) wasn't enough to deter Michael Brown from attacking again. Are you seriously suggesting that he should have holstered the gun, found his taser (if he had one) and tried that, all while Brown was rushing at him? Given the initial confrontation occurred while Wilson was still in his patrol car, pepper spray (not very suitable for use in very close quarters, and confined spaces) and a taser aren't very viable options.
Frankly I have very little to no sympathy for some who gets hurt while resisting arrest just after having actually committed a crime. I don't know why he charged a cop with a drawn gun who had already fired at him, but it was a really dumb thing to do. Charging at anyone who has a gun drawn on you is asking to get shot.
Oh, and 'shooting to wound' is what happens in movies. You know, fiction. Real life combat you're doing well to hit the target at all with a pistol.
ETA: Michael Brown's very poor choices have not only ended his own life, but pretty much screwed up Officer Wilson's, his wife and their immediate family's as well....>>> Witty remark or snarky quote of another poster goes here <<<...
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Originally posted by Zymologist View PostHow do you know? Do you think that shooting to wound him was a viable option?Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom
Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
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I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist
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Originally posted by One Bad Pig View PostShooting to wound is almost never a viable option; it's a more difficult shot, and is far from guaranteed to stop the target. It's amazing what adrenaline can do - I know of a guy who ran for 4 blocks with a bullet hole in his ankle.I DENOUNCE DONALD J. TRUMP AND ALL HIS IMMORAL ACTS.
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Originally posted by Zymologist View PostHow do you know? Do you think that shooting to wound him was a viable option?
Originally posted by MaxVel View Post'shouldn't have to' does not equal 'never does'.
I'll defer to those who have actual experience in these kinds of things (Do you?), but AFAIK it's a lot easier to come up with 'reasonable options' from the sidelines, in your armchair, that it is when you're the one facing down an angry 250 pound guy. Officer Wilson already had his gun drawn, had fired shots, and (as far as we know) the threat of possibly being shot (again?) wasn't enough to deter Michael Brown from attacking again. Are you seriously suggesting that he should have holstered the gun, found his taser (if he had one) and tried that, all while Brown was rushing at him? Given the initial confrontation occurred while Wilson was still in his patrol car, pepper spray (not very suitable for use in very close quarters, and confined spaces) and a taser aren't very viable options.
Frankly I have very little to no sympathy for some who gets hurt while resisting arrest just after having actually committed a crime. I don't know why he charged a cop with a drawn gun who had already fired at him, but it was a really dumb thing to do. Charging at anyone who has a gun drawn on you is asking to get shot.Learn to do right; seek justice. Defend the oppressed. Take up the cause of the fatherless; plead the case of the widow.--Isaiah 1:17
I don't think that all forms o[f] slavery are inherently immoral.--seer
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Originally posted by One Bad Pig View PostShooting to wound is almost never a viable option; it's a more difficult shot, and is far from guaranteed to stop the target. It's amazing what adrenaline can do - I know of a guy who ran for 4 blocks with a bullet hole in his ankle.
I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
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Originally posted by square_peg View PostTase him, perhaps. Use pepper spray. Things like that."As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths." Isaiah 3:12
There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.
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Originally posted by square_peg View Post
That last part is true, but according to Wilson's testimony, Brown had initially started to run away, and Wilson had then gotten out of the car and chased after him. I believe he could've quickly grabbed the taser and spray before leaving the car to chase Brown. After all, the problem of being in close quarters and within a confined space doesn't apply outside on the run.That's what
- She
Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
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Originally posted by square_peg View PostI'm not sure how viable the option is (I understand that it may be difficult to precisely pull off), but as I said, there appear to have been alternatives to shooting him at all.
That last part is true, but according to Wilson's testimony, Brown had initially started to run away, and Wilson had then gotten out of the car and chased after him. I believe he could've quickly grabbed the taser and spray before leaving the car to chase Brown. After all, the problem of being in close quarters and within a confined space doesn't apply outside on the run.
I agree that that would be dumb, except that to me, it's so extraordinary that I have difficulty believing that it happened precisely that way.
And he already wounded Brown and shot off a couple of rounds that caused Brown to run off. Yet even though he was wounded, he turned around and came back to attack Wilson. Brown was the criminal here. He was a bully and a thief. He robbed the store, provoked a policeman, then attacked him in his own car and tried to get his gun, then ran off and turned around and came back at Wilson. If the first shots didn't stop him, then no warning shot, or wounding shot or even taser would have made a difference. The cop was defending his life. He had a right to shoot Brown and he did.
As to why? Brown was bigger than anyone else, and he was obviously used to using his size to get his way. He thought he could intimidate anyone, including a cop. Obviously he was wrong.
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Originally posted by Bill the Cat View PostWilson did not carry a taser, and pepper spray has a very limited distance of use.
I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
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Originally posted by Bill the Cat View PostWilson did not carry a taser
and pepper spray has a very limited distance of use.Learn to do right; seek justice. Defend the oppressed. Take up the cause of the fatherless; plead the case of the widow.--Isaiah 1:17
I don't think that all forms o[f] slavery are inherently immoral.--seer
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Originally posted by square_peg View PostWhich is a problem, isn't it? Shouldn't he have been carrying one?
This type of pepper spray supposedly has an effective range of twenty feet, while this supposedly can shoot up to eighteen feet. Wilson claims that the final shot was fired when Brown was about eight to ten feet away--if he had time to fire a gun, it seems to me that he also could've had time to whisk out and activate the spray.
Why do you keep trying to make up excuses for Brown? He was a criminal and attacked a police officer and would have killed the cop if he had the chance. Instead he got shot and died. It had nothing to do with him being black, and everything to do with him being a thug. Wilson even said he just asked Brown to move out of the street. If he had done so, Wilson would have driven on and Brown would have not been shot and would have had a chance to get away with his robbery of the store. Instead he decided to confront the cop and attack him.
That you keep refusing to accept any explanation and think that no matter what that Brown was the victim here instead of the perpetrator shows that you live in a fantasy world. This isn't a TV cop show where they can just whip out a can of mace or a taser to slow someone down. It was real life and Brown was threatening Wilson's life. Wilson was justified in using deadly force.
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Originally posted by rogue06 View PostIt seems that we've covered the infeasibility of shooting to wound (outside scripted movies and TV shows) ad nauseam. I cannot believe that anyone still thinks that is a viable option.I DENOUNCE DONALD J. TRUMP AND ALL HIS IMMORAL ACTS.
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Originally posted by Zymologist View PostIt seems to me that a simple trip to a gun range might cure a lot of people of that thinking. Twenty yards (for example) isn't all that far until you're actually trying to shoot accurately at that distance with a handgun. Most people would be shocked at their inaccuracy.
I don't think most departments are able, even if they are willing, to devote that much time and $$ to get their officers to that level.
*edit* btw that 600 pounds of lead works out to about 12,300 rounds in a 44 magLast edited by alaskazimm; 11-26-2014, 02:39 PM.We know J6 wasn’t peaceful because they didn’t set the building on fire.
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Originally posted by alaskazimm View PostNot to mention a moving target. The local advice around these parts of remote Alaska is that if you are going to carry a revolver for bear defense you need to be able to hit a moving target about the size of a bowling ball with at least 4 of 6 shots in under 6 seconds. It's been estimated that to gain that level of proficiency you need to put about 600 pounds of lead down rage in training. That's 600 pounds and not rounds.
I don't think most departments are able, even if they are willing, to devote that much time and $$ to get their officers to that level.
*edit* btw that 600 pounds of lead works out to about 12,300 rounds in a 44 magEnter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom
Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
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I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist
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