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  • Originally posted by Jedidiah View Post
    It has no relationship to what I prefer. If someone is involved in that sort of thing there is no telling what they plan to do. I see what ever happens to a thief or rapist or murderer is their own fault - not mine. If I am threatened I have no way of knowing, until it is too late, what their intentions are. If they are killed it is too bad but not my fault, their own.
    "If I am threatened I have no way of knowing, until it is too late, what their intentions are." Being threatened doesn't make shooting someone permissible. Any threat could be a case of mistaken intentions on your part, end right away without harm done, or escalate. At least, without a gun involved. When you draw a weapon, who knows how people will react. Your argument looks to me like preemptive killing. What I'm advocating is threat assessment and the avoidance of conflict escalation. That shouldn't be controversial.

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    • The reason I don't give credence to the arguments of Wilson's detractors is because they're making their pronouncements from the comfort of their computer chair where they have the luxury to contemplate to their heart's content and determine what they think the "best" course of action might have been. Wilson, on the other hand, was reacting on a spur of the moment to an unpredictable and quickly changing situation. It was less than 90-seconds from the time Wilson first confronted Brown until the final fatal shot was fired.
      Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
      But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
      Than a fool in the eyes of God


      From "Fools Gold" by Petra

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Psychic Missile View Post
        My main objection to the whole scenario is that I question the validity of the use of guns on unarmed people.
        I don't think anyone here thinks police should shoot unarmed people as a matter of routine. But (1) police don't always know until after the event that a suspect is actually unarmed (especially in America, where guns are very available) ; (2) there are occasions when an (apparently) unarmed person is acting in such a way as to require use of lethal force*


        Originally posted by Psychic Missile
        If the police in the UK handle unarmed suspects without shooting them, why can't the police in the US?
        Because the two societies are very different.

        USA: (by my count) 41 officers killed in the line of duty ** in 2014 so far

        Homicide rate (per 100,000 people): 4.7

        UK: (by my count) 77 officers killed in the line of duty by gunfire since 1900

        Homicide rate (per 100,000 people): 1.0




        So you're not comparing apples with apples.

        And, BTW, American police do arrest plenty of unarmed suspects without shooting them.




        * technical term

        ** not counting accidental gunfire
        ...>>> Witty remark or snarky quote of another poster goes here <<<...

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        • As I posted in another thread, the UK is starting to arm more of their police. Scotland already does. The basic British Bobby is an officer that patrols a suburb. They don't usually send them in to handle bank robberies, gang wars, etc. They have armed response units (kind of like our SWAT) that handle the rough stuff.

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          • Originally posted by Psychic Missile View Post
            "If I am threatened I have no way of knowing, until it is too late, what their intentions are." Being threatened doesn't make shooting someone permissible. Any threat could be a case of mistaken intentions on your part, end right away without harm done, or escalate. At least, without a gun involved. When you draw a weapon, who knows how people will react. Your argument looks to me like preemptive killing. What I'm advocating is threat assessment and the avoidance of conflict escalation. That shouldn't be controversial.
            Negative amen on this.
            Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?

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            • Originally posted by MaxVel View Post
              I don't think anyone here thinks police should shoot unarmed people as a matter of routine. But (1) police don't always know until after the event that a suspect is actually unarmed (especially in America, where guns are very available) ; (2) there are occasions when an (apparently) unarmed person is acting in such a way as to require use of lethal force*
              1. Police respond to armed and unarmed suspects differently, so it's not a "safe or sorry" situation 2. The point of contention

              Because the two societies are very different.

              USA: (by my count) 41 officers killed in the line of duty ** in 2014 so far

              Homicide rate (per 100,000 people): 4.7

              UK: (by my count) 77 officers killed in the line of duty by gunfire since 1900

              Homicide rate (per 100,000 people): 1.0

              So you're not comparing apples with apples.

              And, BTW, American police do arrest plenty of unarmed suspects without shooting them.

              * technical term

              ** not counting accidental gunfire
              Yes, the US is more dangerous. We are talking about protocol when police confront an unarmed person, which should be the same in both countries with the exception that police in the US should be wary that they may have a gun.

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              • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                As I posted in another thread, the UK is starting to arm more of their police. Scotland already does. The basic British Bobby is an officer that patrols a suburb. They don't usually send them in to handle bank robberies, gang wars, etc. They have armed response units (kind of like our SWAT) that handle the rough stuff.
                AFAIK, the increased gun use is limited to a small area or two, it is decided by politicians, was in response to criminals with guns killing police, and police in general do not want to be armed.

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                • Originally posted by Psychic Missile View Post
                  AFAIK, the increased gun use is limited to a small area or two, it is decided by politicians, was in response to criminals with guns killing police, and police in general do not want to be armed.
                  All UK Police forces have armed units. The bobbies are basically beat patrol cops that walk around neighborhoods. Even they won't go into a gang run slum. The armed units are sent in. In general the UK populace is a lot more civil than most large cities in the USA, with less gang activity and criminals with guns. If criminals routinely carried guns in the UK like they do here, you can bet more police would be carrying guns too. You are basically comparing the UK and the USA and somehow thinking that the USA is Mayberry or something. It's not.

                  You also seem to think that by unarming the police, that the criminals will go around unarmed too. That won't happen. You will just get more violence and crime.

                  Comment

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