"Five Israeli talking points, debunked".... Interesting

[Cow Poke]

And Israel's buffer zone is bigger than the range of these smaller missiles. They pose no real threat to Israeli civilians. The RPG-29 you seem so worried bout has a maximum effective range of about half a mile. Why are you so worried about rpg-29s?

I keep forgetting you grew up in an age where nobody was allowed to keep score in soccer.

[Bill the Cat]

With regards to suicide bombings, there hasn't been one in half a decade. Israel's tight border control has pretty much ended that threat.

Not from lack of trying.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...empt-west-bank

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...s-in-Gaza.html

◾August 28, 2011 -- Eight people were wounded when a Palestinian man from Nablus attacked a Tel Aviv nightclub. The terrorist hijacked a taxi in Jaffa and rammed into an Israel Border Police checkpoint that had been set up to protect the event of over 2,000 people. He then jumped out of the taxi, shouted “Allahu Akhbar” and began stabbing bystanders and police.

◾August 18, 2011 -- A series of attacks targeted civilians in soldiers in southern Israel, killing eight people and wounding at least 31. Terrorists from Gaza infiltrated Israel via the border with Egypt, and fired on a civilian busses and vehicles, detonated explosives when IDF soldiers arrived on the scene of the attack, and then launched mortar shells at soldiers along the Israeli-Egyptian border.

◾April 7, 2011 – An anti-tank missile fired from Gaza at a clearly-marked yellow Israeli school bus driving near the Sha’ar Hanegev Regional Council wounded an Israeli teenager and the bus driver. The boy, 16-year-old Daniel Viflic, later died from his wounds in the hospital.

◾March 11, 2011 – Five Israelis, all members of the same family, were stabbed to death in their beds by two men, both believed to be Palestinian. The victims included father and mother Ehud and Ruth Fogel, and three of their six children, Yoav, 11, Elad, 4, and three-month-old Hadas. The brutal murders, which occurred in Itamar, drew international condemnation from governments, the United Nations and the Middle East Quartet of nations.

◾September 1, 2010: Two Israelis were wounded, one seriously, when Hamas terrorists ambushed their car as as the couple was driving near Kochav Hashachar.

◾August 31, 2010: Four Israelis, including a pregnant woman, were murdered when terrorists ambushed their car as they were driving near Kiryat Arba in the West Bank. Hamas claimed responsibility for the attack, which coincided with the restarting of Israeli-Palestinian peace talks in Washington, D.C.

[Darth Executor]

Like what? Hamas will not go into peace talks.

The US bombed an entire country and destroyed their leaders and government because they hid some terrorists that hit a couple of our buildings. Yet we and the rest of the world whine if Israel hits back after Hamas keeps lobbing rockets and bombs at them every day. Not to mention other terrorist activities, like suicide bombing. And this is after Israel gave the palestinians Gaza back. There is no pleasing them. Maybe all Israeli's can just sing kumbaya and then slit their own throats?

The US didn't really bomb the entire country (nor was it necessary). There's no 100% correlation between Afghanistan and Gaza, but there's a better plan right there: destroy Hamas and rebuild Gaza.

[Bill the Cat]

And Israel's buffer zone is bigger than the range of these smaller missiles.

The buffer zone is 3 km. The smallest of these rockets has a range of 4 km.

They pose no real threat to Israeli civilians. The RPG-29 you seem so worried bout has a maximum effective range of about half a mile. Why are you so worried about rpg-29s?

Because they have almost 1,000 of them, and until a few days ago, a complex series of underground tunnels from which to smuggle them to combat zones.

[Darth Executor]

Not from lack of trying.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...empt-west-bank

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...s-in-Gaza.html

I never said Hamas wouldn't only that they can't.

Not a single one of these is a suicide bombing.

[Cow Poke]

The buffer zone is 3 km. The smallest of these rockets has a range of 4 km.

And don't forget the TUNNELS, where they hoped to have a CLOSER launching zone, even from WITHIN Israel.

[Spartacus]

Spart you have already shown that you don't know anything about the situation over there, or about military and war. So you probably should not be spouting opinions about something you don't actually know anything about.

When you can't answer me, you dismiss me. Or accuse me of advocating genocide. In any case, you have not made any convincing argument for the strategic importance of aerial and artillery counter-bombardments.

Given that Israel warns its targets before they fire, there should not be many-- if any-- Gazan casualties, either militant or civilian unless Hamas wants them to happen. By continuing these bombardments, Israel is giving Hamas exactly what it expects and exactly what it wants.

[Bill the Cat]

I never said Hamas wouldn't only that they can't.

Yes they can. They have just been unsuccessful for a few years now.

Not a single one of these is a suicide bombing.

And my initial comment never mentioned suicide bombing. I said "The ability to live with a smidge less chance of getting your legs blown off in a nightclub."

[Darth Executor]

Yes they can. They have just been unsuccessful for a few years now.

Yeah... cuz they can't... That's what "can't" means. Maybe they'll figure out a way around it eventually but for now it seems to be a useless tactic which is why they don't bother.

And my initial comment never mentioned suicide bombing. I said "The ability to live with a smidge less chance of getting your legs blown off in a nightclub."

You didn't have an original comment, I had an original comment not responding to anyone in particular to which you replied. That's another discussion altogether.

[rogue06]

Well, maybe the homeowner needed to prevent the Hamas jackass from being there in the first place.

That would be like expecting an individual home owner or shop keeper to stand up to the Mexican drug cartels. The only foreseeable result is the execution of them and possibly their families. In fact, with Hamas it could even be worse with them killing the person as a zionist collaborator and the public at large applauding the action.

[Sparko]

The US didn't really bomb the entire country (nor was it necessary). There's no 100% correlation between Afghanistan and Gaza, but there's a better plan right there: destroy Hamas and rebuild Gaza.

and how do they destroy Hamas without hitting civilians??? That is what this discussion is about.

And I wasn't talking about Afghanistan. I was talking about Iraq. We bombed the hell out of their cities after basically starving them with blocades.

I am sure no civilians were harmed in the production of that war. [dripping sarcasm]

[rogue06]

How are they damned if they don't? They have a pretty dependable system to defend against rocket attacks, aside from which the militants don't pose much --if any-- immediate threat to Israeli civilians, and it's not clear whether their bombardments consistently accomplish anything beyond giving Hamas more ammunition for their propaganda. This particular tactic plays directly into the hands of Hamas, and Israel no longer needs to rely on it to defend themselves.

If Israel didn't retaliate Hamas could openly fire their rockets taking the time to properly aim them. Plus they wouldn't have to worry about the launching systems being destroyed or the operators being killed (who would get increasingly proficient as practice makes perfect) so they could increase the number and efficiency of their attacks exponentially.

[Sparko]

When you can't answer me, you dismiss me. Or accuse me of advocating genocide. In any case, you have not made any convincing argument for the strategic importance of aerial and artillery counter-bombardments.

Given that Israel warns its targets before they fire, there should not be many-- if any-- Gazan casualties, either militant or civilian unless Hamas wants them to happen. By continuing these bombardments, Israel is giving Hamas exactly what it expects and exactly what it wants.

Not if everyone condemns Hamas for killing the civilians. Which is actually what is happening.

You seem to think the iron dome is some actual impenetrable shield. You realize that Israel only has a few batteries of these defense missiles right? And they have to move them around to where an attack occurs. They can't just sit on their butts and protect the entire country while thumbing their noses at Hamas. Hamas just has to move where the iron shield is not, and shoot off their rockets. Then move again and do it from somewhere else. And the iron shield missiles are not cheap. RPG's are, relatively speaking. So even when effective, the cost to shoot down an RPG is much higher than the RPG costs. Hamas can just keep doing it forever, and eventually bankrupt Israel.

[rogue06]

and how do they destroy Hamas without hitting civilians??? That is what this discussion is about.

And I wasn't talking about Afghanistan. I was talking about Iraq. We bombed the hell out of their cities after basically starving them with blocades.

I am sure no civilians were harmed in the production of that war. [dripping sarcasm]

sarcasm.gif

For future use

[Spartacus]

If Israel didn't retaliate Hamas could openly fire their rockets taking the time to properly aim them. Plus they wouldn't have to worry about the launching systems being destroyed or the operators being killed (who would get increasingly proficient as practice makes perfect) so they could increase the number and efficiency of their attacks exponentially.

Finally, an intelligent explanation. Thank you. I'm still not sure it answers my questions about the responses to the pre-bombardment warnings, though.