"Five Israeli talking points, debunked".... Interesting

[RumTumTugger]

For the sarcastically impaired the following is said in jest

Seems to have worked pretty well recently.

if the rest of the wrold wouild stand up to the bullies and not let them get away there dishonesty about who is the actualy attacker we'd get somewhere but since you like the restcontinue to accept the lie that is it he victims fault and the VICTIM should be punished instead of the bully. The bully will continue knowing he won't be punished.

Think on that when you keep blaming the Victim and telling them they have not right to defend themselves.

[Bill the Cat]

What about the Iron Dome? That gives each rocket only a 10% chance to get through to a populated area-- assuming it's even generally on-target -- and even then, Israel's warning sirens, etc, are likely to mitigate the risk of casualties.

That's the larger rockets. I am talking about the shoulder mounted RPG-29.

Israel now has it in its power to say, "We don't want to kill civilians or destroy their homes in order to protect ourselves from militants, and now, we don't have to!" I can't understand why they don't, unless, as DE suggests, they're trying to make life so unlivable for Gazans that they finally pull up stakes and leave Gaza entirely.

Because any sign of weakness is considered an empowering victory by the terrorists. When Israel refuses to retaliate, it emboldens the terrorists to continue.

[Darth Executor]

The only way to defeat terrorism is to stand up to them with sufficient force that they can not overwhelm you. That's basic war 101.

Yes but what does bombing places where there are no terrorists have to do with standing up to terrorists? Seems it's more likely that poor people who now don't even have a house to live in anymore might want to join Hamas to get enough money to support their families.

The ability to live with a smidge less chance of getting your legs blown off in a nightclub.

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Except it's not a smidge less chance of getting your legs blown off in a nightclub since it does nothing to dampen Hamas's ability to do that. Quite the opposite, a man now has no house anymore and has even more incentive to join up with Hamas to make some money so his family isn't left completely destitute.

[Spartacus]

That's the larger rockets. I am talking about the shoulder mounted RPG-29.

So how are Israel's aerial and artillery bombardments related to the current Hamas rocket attacks?

Because any sign of weakness is considered an empowering victory by the terrorists. When Israel refuses to retaliate, it emboldens the terrorists to continue.

Which has worked so well for the past few decades.

[RumTumTugger]

sure I am. You just told Zym that the artillery response was pointless. The alternative would be to use ground troop responses. But they would take too long and be less useful than you think the artillery response is.

If Israel sees a rocket launch, it can send back a shell almost instantly, which will kill the terrorists. If they send in ground troops, it would take probably up to an hour to get through the streets to where the launch occurred and the terrorists would be long gone. And all the time the ground troops were traveling, they would be targets of other terrorists and ambushes.

If Hamas actually cared about the people they live among, they would not launch rockets from the midst of those people. They would send them away first. Hamas WANTS their own people killed so they can cry how evil the Israelis are. The Israelis are stuck between a rock and a hard place. They can't just sit there and let Hamas bomb them into extinction, and if they respond in any effective way at all, civilians get injured or killed, not because of them, but because of Hamas.

So why are you condemning Israel and not Hamas for those civilian deaths?

:thumbs we reallly need a amen button again.

[Sparko]

Israel is damned if they do or damned if they don't. Might as well do.

[Spartacus]

Israel is damned if they do or damned if they don't. Might as well do.

How are they damned if they don't? They have a pretty dependable system to defend against rocket attacks, aside from which the militants don't pose much --if any-- immediate threat to Israeli civilians, and it's not clear whether their bombardments consistently accomplish anything beyond giving Hamas more ammunition for their propaganda. This particular tactic plays directly into the hands of Hamas, and Israel no longer needs to rely on it to defend themselves.

[Darth Executor]

Israel is damned if they do or damned if they don't. Might as well do.

Because the only options are to do what they're currently doing and doing nothing. Even though what they're currently doing is probably worse than doing nothing (unless as i suggested earlier they're gambling on a successful ethnic cleansing). There are other things that they could actually be doing that are productive.

[Bill the Cat]

Yes but what does bombing places where there are no terrorists have to do with standing up to terrorists? Seems it's more likely that poor people who now don't even have a house to live in anymore might want to join Hamas to get enough money to support their families.

Nuking Hiroshima and Nagasaki seemed to do the trick for the US. Hit them hard enough, and they won't be able to retaliate.

Except it's not a smidge less chance of getting your legs blown off in a nightclub since it does nothing to dampen Hamas's ability to do that.

Yes it does. Those facilities that are being bombed by Israel are explosive manufacturing and storage facilities. Less explosives and less modes of travel to plant them means less detonations. Again, basic war 101.

Quite the opposite, a man now has no house anymore and has even more incentive to join up with Hamas to make some money so his family isn't left completely destitute.

And if that man knows that if he joins Hamas, he stands no chance at surviving long enough to spend his first paycheck, then he has no incentive to join them.

[Darth Executor]

With regards to suicide bombings, there hasn't been one in half a decade. Israel's tight border control has pretty much ended that threat.

[Darth Executor]

Nuking Hiroshima and Nagasaki seemed to do the trick for the US. Hit them hard enough, and they won't be able to retaliate.

Apples and zebras.

Yes it does. Those facilities that are being bombed by Israel are explosive manufacturing and storage facilities. Less explosives and less modes of travel to plant them means less detonations. Again, basic war 101.

Those aren't what I'm talking about. Israel's bombing isn't limited just to manufacturing and storage facilities.

And if that man knows that if he joins Hamas, he stands no chance at surviving long enough to spend his first paycheck, then he has no incentive to join them.

But his family will. A lot of islamists take care of their members' families if they sacrifice themselves for the cause. Plus, again, Israel explicitly refuses to exterminate Hamas.

[Bill the Cat]

So how are Israel's aerial and artillery bombardments related to the current Hamas rocket attacks?

Most of the smaller rockets and mortar bombs, like the RPG-29 are getting through, because Iron Dome is not designed for them. It is designed for the Qasaam 3 and up.

hamas-rockets-2014.jpg

Which has worked so well for the past few decades.

Exactly. Over 1/3 of the Hamas arsenal has been destroyed by Israeli military operations.

[Sparko]

Because the only options are to do what they're currently doing and doing nothing. Even though what they're currently doing is probably worse than doing nothing (unless as i suggested earlier they're gambling on a successful ethnic cleansing). There are other things that they could actually be doing that are productive.

Like what? Hamas will not go into peace talks.

The US bombed an entire country and destroyed their leaders and government because they hid some terrorists that hit a couple of our buildings. Yet we and the rest of the world whine if Israel hits back after Hamas keeps lobbing rockets and bombs at them every day. Not to mention other terrorist activities, like suicide bombing. And this is after Israel gave the palestinians Gaza back. There is no pleasing them. Maybe all Israeli's can just sing kumbaya and then slit their own throats?

[Spartacus]

And Israel's buffer zone is bigger than the range of these smaller missiles. They pose no real threat to Israeli civilians. The RPG-29 you seem so worried bout has a maximum effective range of about half a mile. Why are you so worried about rpg-29s?

[Sparko]

How are they damned if they don't? They have a pretty dependable system to defend against rocket attacks, aside from which the militants don't pose much --if any-- immediate threat to Israeli civilians, and it's not clear whether their bombardments consistently accomplish anything beyond giving Hamas more ammunition for their propaganda. This particular tactic plays directly into the hands of Hamas, and Israel no longer needs to rely on it to defend themselves.

Spart you have already shown that you don't know anything about the situation over there, or about military and war. So you probably should not be spouting opinions about something you don't actually know anything about.