"Five Israeli talking points, debunked".... Interesting

[KingsGambit]

I found this interesting. I had been under the impression most of these talking points were accurate. Thoughts?

http://www.alternet.org/world/five-i...age=1#bookmark

[Jedidiah]

Twisted "debunking." Very twisted.

[KingsGambit]

Twisted "debunking." Very twisted.

What is specifically wrong with the reasoning?

[Spartacus]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dahiya_doctrine

If the article is right that this "Dahiya doctrine" has actually been implemented, then we have a very serious problem. Even the suggestion is morally problematic.

[TimelessTheist]

I found this interesting. I had been under the impression most of these talking points were accurate. Thoughts?

http://www.alternet.org/world/five-i...age=1#bookmark

You gotta love number three. Oh, so if Israel stops fighting back then the Palestinian rocket attacks drift down to the single-digits. See, if you stop your counterattack, they'll still fire rockets at you, they'll just do it less often. Brilliant.

[Cow Poke]

Israel is fighting enemies that have vowed her destruction. I mean, how do you "negotiate" with somebody who wants 100% of your people dead? Do you agree to let them kill 50%? 75%? 80%?

This part, for example, is just "bird brained":

Source: the article

As the occupying power of the Gaza Strip, and the Palestinian Territories more broadly, Israel has an obligation and a duty to protect the civilians under its occupation.

© Copyright Original Source

OK, WHY is Israel "occupying" Gaza? Because it would be incredibly easy for her enemies to get missiles and armament from the Med, and fire them into Israel -- even Tel-Aviv airport. OH WAIT! That's what they ARE doing! So Israel isn't there to "protect" the "occupied" -- they are there to try to protect their own existence.

Source: cont'd

It governs by military and law enforcement authority to maintain order, protect itself and protect the civilian population under its occupation.

© Copyright Original Source

The civilian population that ELECTED terrorists to represent them?

Source: cont'd

It cannot simultaneously occupy the territory, thus usurping the self-governing powers that would otherwise belong to Palestinians, and declare war upon them. These contradictory policies (occupying a land and then declaring war on it) make the Palestinian population doubly vulnerable.

© Copyright Original Source

I'm guessing this article was ghost-written by Achmed Terrorburger.

[Cow Poke]

I think the current occupants of Gaza would win the media war hands down if they simply declared "We no longer seek the death of Israel, and recognize her right to exist".

I guess I'll add that to my "Impossible Headlines" thread.

[TimelessTheist]

Israel is fighting enemies that have vowed her destruction. I mean, how do you "negotiate" with somebody who wants 100% of your people dead? Do you agree to let them kill 50%? 75%? 80%?

This part, for example, is just "bird brained":

Source: the article

As the occupying power of the Gaza Strip, and the Palestinian Territories more broadly, Israel has an obligation and a duty to protect the civilians under its occupation.

© Copyright Original Source

OK, WHY is Israel "occupying" Gaza? Because it would be incredibly easy for her enemies to get missiles and armament from the Med, and fire them into Israel -- even Tel-Aviv airport. OH WAIT! That's what they ARE doing! So Israel isn't there to "protect" the "occupied" -- they are there to try to protect their own existence.

Source: cont'd

It governs by military and law enforcement authority to maintain order, protect itself and protect the civilian population under its occupation.

© Copyright Original Source

The civilian population that ELECTED terrorists to represent them?

Source: cont'd

It cannot simultaneously occupy the territory, thus usurping the self-governing powers that would otherwise belong to Palestinians, and declare war upon them. These contradictory policies (occupying a land and then declaring war on it) make the Palestinian population doubly vulnerable.

© Copyright Original Source

I'm guessing this article was ghost-written by Achmed Terrorburger.

Israel has enough firepower to wipe out every living thing in the Gaza Strip. If Israel was really as evil as this article insinuates, the Gaza Strip would be nothing but a smoldering crater now.

[Cow Poke]

Israel has enough firepower to wipe out every living thing in the Gaza Strip. If Israel was really as evil as this article insinuates, the Gaza Strip would be nothing but a smoldering crater now.

Yeah

[seer]

I found this interesting. I had been under the impression most of these talking points were accurate. Thoughts?

http://www.alternet.org/world/five-i...age=1#bookmark

Let's get real here, if Hamas wasn't first attacking Israel, Israel would not be fighting in Gaza - Israel does not want this war, it doesn't help them on any level. The fact is, the FACT - is that since Hamas took rule they imported construction materials not to build schools and hospitals but to build tunnels to hide and smuggle rockets. They have showered the nation of Israel with literally thousands of these rockets. Any other rational nation would have flattened Gaza by now, like we did to the cities of Germany and Japan. And it would be completely justified. The Jews gave up Gaza free and clear, and when they did it was a thriving state, today is a crap hole. Thanks to Hamas and the people who elected them!

[Cow Poke]

Let's get real here, if Hamas wasn't first attacking Israel, Israel would not be fighting in Gaza - Israel does not want this war, it doesn't help them on any level. The fact is, the FACT - is that since Hamas took rule they imported construction materials not to build schools and hospitals but to build tunnels to hide and smuggle rockets. They have showered the nation of Israel with literally thousands of these rockets. Any other rational nation would have flattened Gaza by now, like we did to the cities of Germany and Japan. And it would be completely justified. The Jews gave up Gaza free and clear, and when they did it was a thriving state, today is a crap hole. Thanks to Hamas and the people who elected them!

Funny you should mention that. On my recent trip to Israel, it was hard NOT to notice that when you traveled from the "Israeli controlled" sections into the "Palestinian controlled" sections, it was like going from civilization into a third world country. And friends who have been there PRIOR to Israel "handing over" the West Bank, for example, say that each time they go, they can see the Palestinian controlled sections getting worse and worse.

[KingsGambit]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dahiya_doctrine

If the article is right that this "Dahiya doctrine" has actually been implemented, then we have a very serious problem. Even the suggestion is morally problematic.

Yes, I agree. This will make me an outcast here most likely but any general who suggests that on behalf of his nation deserves severe censure at the very least. There is no way that can be morally justified.

[Spartacus]

Funny you should mention that. On my recent trip to Israel, it was hard NOT to notice that when you traveled from the "Israeli controlled" sections into the "Palestinian controlled" sections, it was like going from civilization into a third world country. And friends who have been there PRIOR to Israel "handing over" the West Bank, for example, say that each time they go, they can see the Palestinian controlled sections getting worse and worse.

Which is due in part to Israel controlling, among other things, water resources. If they don't get the resources they need for economic development, it's easy to see why they can't accomplish it.

[Teallaura]

Funny how after the 2005 withdrawal Israel started suffering rocket attacks from the Gaza - kinda hard to explain if they didn't legitimately withdraw...

Wasn't that 'refugee flotilla' thing a few years ago launched from the Gaza as well? I could be mistaken (can't remember offhand much about it) but if so, so much for maritime control, huh?

[Teallaura]

Which is due in part to Israel controlling, among other things, water resources. If they don't get the resources they need for economic development, it's easy to see why they can't accomplish it.

Has more to do with the Palestinian Authority's ineptitude and outright corruption, however.