Possible Trump Indictment

[Ronson]

Personally, I think I'd rather have had a few beers with Bill Clinton than Trump. But that's a horrible criteria to judge a president by.

And I would prefer to have Obama as a neighbor than Trump. I imagine the Obamas would be much quieter.

[Starlight]

That bookends well with his recent claims that they want to defund the police.

Is that any less accurate than Republicans claiming Democrat politicians in general want to defund the police?

If Republicans are prepared to outright lie to confuse voters on an issue, is Joe telling exactly the same lie straight back about Republicans so terrible? At least it has the benefit (if believed) of making the average confused voter's beliefs more in line with the truth of the issue, i.e. that there's little difference between the politicians from both parties on the issue.

[rogue06]

Is that any less accurate than Republicans claiming Democrat politicians in general want to defund the police?

If Republicans are prepared to outright lie to confuse voters on an issue, is Joe telling exactly the same lie straight back about Republicans so terrible? At least it has the benefit (if believed) of making the average confused voter's beliefs more in line with the truth of the issue, i.e. that there's little difference between the politicians from both parties on the issue.

You mean like the ones who straight out demanded it?

[seanD]

You mean like the ones who straight out demanded it?

Or the police departments that actually did it and then regretted it later.

[Mountain Man]

One thing seems clear. Alvin Bragg might be the only person in the world thanking God for the Nashville massacre so that the focus has shifted from him and his imminent indictment of Trump that he now keeps putting off.

Latest news is that the grand jury will take a month off before making any decision.

[Starlight]

You mean like the ones who straight out demanded it?

All maybe 1 of them at the federal level? And then Republicans went on a lie spree and pretended Dems in general wanted to defund the police.

[seanD]

All maybe 1 of them at the federal level? And then Republicans went on a lie spree and pretended Dems in general wanted to defund the police.

Or the democrats that lie and say it never happened because it was so embarrassing to their party.

[rogue06]

All maybe 1 of them at the federal level? And then Republicans went on a lie spree and pretended Dems in general wanted to defund the police.

Just off the top of my head, would that one be Rep. Cori Bush (D-MO), Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (D-NY), Rep. Ayanna Pressley (D-MA), Rep. Rashida Tlaib (D-MI), Rep. Ilhan Omar (D-MN), or Rep. Jamaal Bowman (D-NY)?

Or maybe the one you meant was the VP, Kamala Harris?

Which one of those (and I'll bet there are more, but I was going from memory) do you think is the "All maybe 1 of them at the federal level"?

And how can you say you still get all of your news from TYTs and their ilk without having to say that you still get all of your news from TYTs and their ilk?

[Gondwanaland]

All maybe 1 of them at the federal level? And then Republicans went on a lie spree and pretended Dems in general wanted to defund the police.

You telling porkies again and then accusing Republicans of what you're guilty of?

Or can you just not count? Just a few examples, all on federal level, all serving at a federal level:

The "defund the police" movement, is one of reimagining the current police system to build an entity that does not violate us, while relocating funds to invest in community services.

Let’s be clear, the people who now oppose this, have always opposed calls for systematic change. https://t.co/SEh97GS9hg
— Ilhan Omar (@IlhanMN) June 9, 2020

The defund movement isn't new. Folks are just finally listening. "We got money for wars but can't feed the poor." #HappyBirthdayTupac #DefundPolice #FundCommunities
— Ayanna Pressley (@AyannaPressley) June 16, 2020

I believe we need to protect families who need help, and ICE isn’t doing that. It has become a deportation force. We need to separate immigration issues from criminal justice. We need to abolish ICE, start over and build something that actually works. https://t.co/JtSN68k4Fd
— Kirsten Gillibrand (@SenGillibrand) June 29, 2018

Instead of spending $80 billion a year on jails and incarceration, we need to be investing in more jobs and education. One thing is abundantly clear: Every police department violating people's civil rights must be stripped of federal funding. Period.
— Bernie Sanders (@BernieSanders) June 4, 2020

When we say #DefundPolice, what we mean is people are dying and we need to invest in people's livelihoods instead.

EXAMPLE: Detroit spent $294 million on police last year, and $9 million on health.

This is systemic oppression in numbers. pic.twitter.com/oPe0GD3D6p
— Rashida Tlaib (@RashidaTlaib) June 4, 2020

Defunding the police is about rebuilding our country in the image of our people — full of humanity, love, and care. Particularly for our kids and schools. https://t.co/vLZGfaidlH
— Jamaal Bowman (@JamaalBowmanNY) February 22, 2021

Another unarmed black man, shot in the back, by a WI police officer! No matter the outrage at the killing of George Floyd by a police officer, knee on his neck, the killing of black men continues. Is this a defiance by the police that indicates they don’t intend to stop?

— Maxine Waters (@RepMaxineWaters) August 26, 2020

This is the same Sacramento Police Department that murdered #StephonClark. The leadership of the department, and all of these officers, must be fired. Then, the department must be dismantled and policing reimagined.pic.twitter.com/c8dORCjsKG

— Mondaire Jones (@MondaireJones) August 30, 2020

For those who think spending more on policing works, look at St. Louis.

We spend more per capita on police than 85% of police depts, yet 68% of violent crimes go unsolved. And police kill us at the highest rate in the nation.

Police don’t need more money. Our communities do.
— Cori Bush (@CoriBush) June 3, 2021

Defunding the police isn’t radical, it’s real. https://t.co/wUcTjxqS3w
— Cori Bush (@CoriBush) January 28, 2021

Too many police in our country are more concerned with protecting white supremacy than serving the communities that pay their salaries. https://t.co/yDdUuw0GRv
— Jamaal Bowman (@JamaalBowmanNY) March 17, 2021

An “accidental discharge” that kills someone has another name: manslaughter.

We don’t need police with lethal weapons carrying out routine traffic stops.

Re-allocate police funding to unarmed traffic forces to remove even the possibility of state-sanctioned manslaughter. https://t.co/AbZ4NcwCC0
— Jamaal Bowman (@JamaalBowmanNY) April 12, 2021

ICE has kept a 7 year old captive & alone for FOUR MONTHS with no parents around.

This is cruel and unusual punishment. The Eight Amendment strictly prohibits government from acting this way.

THIS is what we need to “shut down until we figure out what’s going on.” Defund ICE. https://t.co/l47AcpudDZ

— Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (@AOC) March 12, 2018

Defund ICE.

Fund the USPS.

— Rep. Ilhan Omar (@Ilhan) August 15, 2020

Now @VICE reporting that @CBP is sending predator drones over #GeorgeFloyd protests in Minneapolis.

This is what happens when leaders sign blank check after blank check to militarize police, CBP, etc while letting violence go unchecked.

We need answers. And we need to defund. https://t.co/tfBZFRNI9G

— Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (@AOC) May 29, 2020

"But the truth is that abolishing ICE isn’t that radical. We reorganize government all the time, creating some agencies and eliminating others. Nevertheless, it is a bold proposal."

It's time to be bold. It's time to #AbolishICE.https://t.co/bSrAg79xLT
— Rep. Mark Pocan (@repmarkpocan) July 2, 2018

Do we really think our local police departments need weapons of war like:

Grenade Launchers?
Bayonets?
Explosives?
Weaponized Drones?

None of these weapons belong on our streets against American civilians.

We must #DemilitarizeThePolice today. It's past time we did.
— Senator Mazie Hirono (@maziehirono) July 21, 2020

The maximum cruelty that ICE inflicts on immigrants is horrifying and must come to an immediate end. It's time to replace this inhumane system with one that treats immigrants with dignity while ending our reliance on detention.https://t.co/4UtxDYmWHB
— Rep. Pramila Jayapal (@RepJayapal) December 19, 2020

Roughly 1 in 4 fatal police encounters end the life of someone with mental illness, so it’s no surprise that this program is saving lives. Sending healthcare professionals—not police—when someone is experiencing a mental health crisis makes our communities safer for all. https://t.co/9FDbAxtGas
— Rep. Katie Porter (@RepKatiePorter) February 8, 2021

We have seen video after video over the last few weeks of peaceful protestors being met with extreme violence from police.

We can’t wait. It’s time to overhaul our policing system. https://t.co/3PiHshcjMN
— Rep. Barbara Lee (@RepBarbaraLee) June 5, 2020

Today's police forces look more like armies equipped with weapons of war. A fed'l program from the 1990s sends surplus military equipment to NYPD & other police. Today, I've introduced legislation to end this initiative once and for all. #BlackLivesMatter #EndPoliceViolence 1/3 pic.twitter.com/wLmYY6MnH6
— Rep. Nydia Velazquez (@NydiaVelazquez) June 10, 2020

Today's @HouseJudiciary markup will address the reforms needed to hold police accountable, fight systemic racism, & save lives. Watch: https://t.co/mBADi91Dz7

We can & must re-imagine what just policing looks like in our country. #JusticeInPolicing pic.twitter.com/slDCk6N9pk
— Rep. Zoe Lofgren (@RepZoeLofgren) June 17, 2020

We can and must re-imagine what just policing looks like in our country. Today's @HouseJudiciary hearing will address the reforms needed to hold police accountable, fight systemic racism, and save lives. pic.twitter.com/pvusXDrBSm
— David Cicilline (@davidcicilline) June 17, 2020

We must defund Trump’s secret police that are currently in Portland and soon may arrive uninvited in other American cities.

I'm in D.C. working around the clock to build support for such a plan.
— Earl Blumenauer (@repblumenauer) July 21, 2020

Police departments across the country have a lot more to do.

We must continue to apply pressure to disrupt the system.

This is how we see results.
— Yvette D. Clarke (@RepYvetteClarke) June 6, 2020

We will wait with bated breath for your apology for your falsehood, because I brought the receipts, you Kiwi twit. Stop getting your news from cranks like TYTs.

[Starlight]

Thanks for your quotes Gond. I apologize for my inaccurate comments earlier. I value truth as sacred and so greatly value correction when I make any error.

I don't agree that all of those quotes are referring to defund the police, but many certainly are. I think perhaps it's more correct to say that nobody in the leadership of the Dem party ever supported the defund the police movement. I do still think it is true to say that Republicans pretended it was more of a thing among Dems than it really was. Remember there are ~264 democrats in congress, so your list is only indicating around 10% support for the broad concept of it, which is not a large percentage.

[eider]

That would require admirable people for whom to vote, a phenomenon not limited to the US.

That is so weak...... don't you think?
Now come on and think about Former President Trump.....there must be one feature of him that was devoted to the people or the country that you admired.

Tell me how he was better than a democrat President?

[eider]

It's an inherent downside of the two party system. Neither party is incentivized to actually act well, and inspire people to vote for them, they're just incentivized to convince people the other party is worse and have them voting against the other party.

Yep, when politics is all about folks trashing the other ;parties and with little respect for their own, that's a busted system.
Most posts here are railing about your President on a thread about the Former President.

The problem needs to be solved, at root, by moving beyond a 2 party system, which needs to be done through changing the voting system. Ranked choice voting (a form of STV), which multiple states are moving to now, might be able to achieve this. Tweaking it slightly further by merging 2-3 congressional districts (in those states big enough to have multiple) and having 2-3 winners of the bigger districts (proper STV), would certainly achieve this and would be acceptably close to the best possible system IMO, but that requires the federal government altering a 1967 law before individual states can start implementing it, and little incentivizes federal politicians to alter a law that would cause their own parties to lose power, whereas Ranked choice voting can currently be implemented by the individual states yet affect federal politicians so it doesn't suffer from that same issue.

Single transferable voting? Is that it?
Many in the UK wanted a system which would favour more parties, like the Greens and other minors, but just as you say the proposing Bills never got enacted because the two main parties would not let it through. But we aere devolving here, I see Scotland gaining political independence fairly soon. Whether the new First Minister for Scotland (Hamza Yousef) can achieve independence for his country....not yet, I suspect.

[eider]

Trump is a lout. Simple as that. What is truly horrifying is that the Democrats make him look good in comparison.

I for one would trade mean tweets for Bidenomics and Bidenflation for instance.

Did you vote for him..... Former President Trump? There must have been something positive about him, surely?
Smart suits? Lots of money? Something?

[eider]

So going back to your initial post about you not wanting Trump to get "any more power,"...........................................

No.... my initial post wrote ' So Trump has used hookers...OK' (I couldn't care less about that....apparently he does)

My next post showed :-
Ain't he a sweetheart?
Look, he might be a tax cheat, might pay for sex and might need to bribe the hooker, and might incite nutcases to invade government buildings and maybe more, but this fine gentleman walked out under the cameras' views and held a bible high, and that could make a difference to some hearts and minds, even if it was upside down.

And many of his press releases were so much fun. He's great fun, so long as he never gets any more power, imo.


I'm waiting to read a post by anybody that shows any respect or belief in Former President Trump.
On a thread about Mr Trump all I am reading is hate posts about other people.

If that is an average where you are you could have a new voting system whereby you don't vote for the contender that you respect or believe in, you vote for the contender that you hate most.

[eider]

Thanks for your quotes Gond. I apologize for my inaccurate comments earlier. I value truth as sacred and so greatly value correction when I make any error.

Luv it.......

I don't agree that all of those quotes are referring to defund the police, but many certainly are. I think perhaps it's more correct to say that nobody in the leadership of the Dem party ever supported the defund the police movement. I do still think it is true to say that Republicans pretended it was more of a thing among Dems than it really was. Remember there are ~264 democrats in congress, so your list is only indicating around 10% support for the broad concept of it, which is not a large percentage.

Intense anger over outrageous injustice could have provoked such knee-jerk outbursts, but nobody really wanted to leave the people and communities without any protection at all. They just wanted to clear out bad policing, I expect. As you know our biggest force here needs shaking down to its very roots. All my life I've known about corruption in the Met, my first experience was witnessing a family friend paying off two uniformed cops after getting caught shooting a red light..... straight out of his pocket as I watched in the back seat. We certainly could sort through out entire constabulary network for the outright villains.