World War Three?

[Mountain Man]

But this is the deceit problem we were discussing before. We don't know for sure what's true and what's false, based on the fact there has been so much pro-Ukraine deceit. The question is who benefits from the claim. Obviously Russia doesn't benefit using cluster bombs on a country they're occupying. OTOH, pro-Ukrainian propaganda calling for western intervention does benefit. That doesn't mean emphatically that Russia didn't use those types of bombs, but we can't be sure based on the previous level of deceit.

Well said, comrade-- er, I mean my fellow United States citizen.

[tabibito]

But this is the deceit problem we were discussing before. We don't know for sure what's true and what's false, based on the fact there has been so much pro-Ukraine deceit. The question is who benefits from the claim. Obviously Russia doesn't benefit using cluster bombs on a country they're occupying. OTOH, pro-Ukrainian propaganda calling for western intervention does benefit. That doesn't mean emphatically that Russia didn't use those types of bombs, but we can't be sure based on the previous level of deceit.

The cluster bomb report was confirmed by UN observers. There is not a lot of room for reasonable doubt about that one. Probably the only one that there isn't cause for doubt on.


Oh - and the destruction of the Antonov 225

[firstfloor]

Sorry kiddo, but this has nothing to do with President Trump. This is all on Joe, and he has catastrophically mishandled it just like everything else he's been taskef with. He's like the opposite of King Midas: everything he touches turns to... well, you know.

The annexation of Crimea was in 2014, so Ukraine was an issue for Trump throughout his term of office, and he continually undermined their efforts to prevent Russian aggression. Biden is tidying up Trump’s mess.

[NorrinRadd]

I think Russia's weakness is being exaggerated. We keep hearing that this is a botched invasion and that the Russian military has been "stalled" multiple times, but given how much ground they've taken and continue to take, it seems more likely that the "stalls" are really just the army regrouping and resupplying for their next push.

One of the generals on FNC said he doesn't believe the "stalled" explanation. He claims they're doing just what he'd expected: Holding a ready position until forces approaching from other directions are in place so that they can all advance in unison and force the Ukrainians to defend against attacks from at least three directions simultaneously.

[NorrinRadd]

Putin IS on your team (Christians).

-Putin

So you see, there is nothing about Christianity the ensures good behavior.

Technically, rogue said he hopes Putin finds "Christ," not "Christianity."

Neither "ensures" good behavior, but the distinction is still meaningful.

[Mountain Man]

The annexation of Crimea was in 2014, so Ukraine was an issue for Trump throughout his term of office, and he continually undermined their efforts to prevent Russian aggression. Biden is tidying up Trump’s mess.

Obama let Russia take Crimea. What was President Trump supposed to do, take it back? It was "Slick Willy" Clinton who conned Ukraine into giving up nuclear arms, and Obama who pulled the missile defense shield out of Europe. What was President Trump supposed to do, waltz in with missiles for everybody and push tensions with Russia to the breaking point?

No, President Trump kept Russia at bay through economic policy and just enough show of military strength that Putin didn't dare cross him.

Now we have Joe who's limp policies have emboldened Russia and is directly funding Putin's ambitions through continued oil purchases. If you support Joe, then you support Putin.

[One Bad Pig]

Perhaps your politics and actions are more alike than you think.

In a 2013 speech, Putin condemned the post-Christian world as:
rejecting their roots, including the Christian values that constitute the basis of Western civilization ... They are implementing policies that equate large families with same-sex partnerships; belief in God with belief in Satan. ... I'm convinced this leads us to degradation and primitivization — to deeper moral crisis.


The same year, Putin signed a law forbidding homosexual and transgender propaganda to minors. He led the effort to ban same-sex unions and adoptions as part of a constitutional referendum. Seventy-eight percent of Russians voted for it.

Back in 1920, Soviet Russia was the world's first country to legalize abortion. Today, Putin has backed initiatives that discourage killing preborn children. In March 2021, Russia's deputy prime minister said abortion in Russia declined 39% since 2016.

Critics point out Putin's religiosity is linked to Russian nationalism — and they wouldn't be wrong. The Russian Orthodox Church and the Putin government are working in tandem to transform Russia to its former glory.

Yes, Putin appears to be a devout Christian - but he is also a trained KGB operative; Christianity may not be more than a useful tool to him. He is certainly using the Russian Orthodox Church to further his aims. Discouraging abortion, however, is at least as much nationalist as it is religious; Russia's birthrate is abominably low, which is anathema to a nationalist.

[Gondwanaland]

Ah, now some casual Russian terrorism for our resident Russian asset(s?) to pooh-pooh and insist "we just can't know!"

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-b2027712.html

A Russian soldier walked through a Ukrainian crowd holding what appeared to be two grenades in the air, jeered by angry onlookers.

He was thought to be part of a Russian delegation sent to the city of Konotop in northeastern Ukraine to call on residents to surrender.

Another soldier followed him, his hands in the air.

The pair were followed by furious shouts from Ukrainians, some people jostling them, and their vehicle tyres were reportedly punctured.

The troops threatened to raze the city with artillery strikes, according to Artem Semenikhin, mayor of Konotop, which has about 86,000 inhabitants.

He told residents in a public address in the street that the Russians had surrounded the city and delivered an ultimatum - either he surrender the city to them or they would completely destroy it.

Asking people whether they should fight or surrender, the crowd overwhelmingly responded that they backed fighting.



Russia’s invasion of Ukraine entered its second week on Thursday with its main assault force halted north of the capital Kyiv and several cities enduring heavy Russian bombing.

Ukrainian president Volodymyr Zelensky has said his country’s armed forces are holding off the Russian advance.

But Russia claims to have taken “complete control” of the Black Sea port of Kherson.

Ukraine fears Russia may be preparing to stage a so-called false flag operation near the Ukraine-Russia border to suggest Ukraine has attacked a Russian village, Ukrainian Foreign Minister Dmytro Kuleba says.


In Ukraine’s Chernihiv region, at least nine people have been killed and four wounded after a Russian air strike hit two schools and private houses on Thursday, governor Viacheslav Chaus said.

Heavy fighting has continued on the outskirts of Mariupol, a strategic port city on the Azov Sea, plunging it into darkness, isolation and fear. Electricity and phone connections are largely down, and homes and shops are facing food and water shortages.

[Mountain Man]

The Russian Defense Ministry on Wednesday offered its first official estimate of casualties suffered in the attack on Ukraine, claiming 498 Russian troops have been killed and 1,597 injured.

The Ukrainian government claims the number of Russian casualties is many times higher, up to 9,000 in total.

https://www.breitbart.com/asia/2022/...ost-over-9000/

I wonder what the truth is?

[One Bad Pig]

Maybe at root it's a holy war.

The article speculates that Pootie is motivated by a desire to unite the two largest majority EO countries under the headship of the larger and earlier one, and that failure to at least consider this aspect in favor of only secular motivations will always lead to misunderstanding.

The Ecumenical Patriarch granted the Ukrainian Orthodox Church autocephaly a couple years ago, which so angered the Russian Orthodox Church that they broke off relations. If the Russians occupy Ukraine, that makes its church's autocephalous status largely moot.

[Sparko]

The Ecumenical Patriarch granted the Ukrainian Orthodox Church autocephaly a couple years ago, which so angered the Russian Orthodox Church that they broke off relations. If the Russians occupy Ukraine, that makes its church's autocephalous status largely moot.

Got a question for you since you worked with nukes in the Navy. Gond and me were discussing the nukes that Ukraine had previously and he said they were useless because they didn't have the codes. I said they could have swapped out the controller boards and the various base computers with their own. Gond said they couldn't do that. Who is right? or neither?

[Mountain Man]

It's interesting watching Democrats who have for years vilified US gun owners, praising Ukrainian citizens who have taken up arms to defend their country. Apparently an armed citizenry is now a good thing.

[Ronson]

A couple things, generally

The Crimean referendum was sanctioned by Ukraine, but the results were not. Because Russian troops moved into the peninsula before the vote, the results were questioned. Especially as it ended up 97% in favor of reuniting with Russia.

There were two options on the ballot: To be nearly independent (like having its own diplomats and international relations, per the 1992 Ukraine constitution), or to reunite with Russia. So, in neither case would Crimea have ended up under control of Kyiv again.

No one believed the population would vote 97% in favor of annexation. But looking at a map of Ukraine, I think it's possible.

crimea.jpg

[Sparko]

It's interesting watching Democrats who have for years vilified US gun owners, praising Ukrainian citizens who have taken up arms to defend their country. Apparently an armed citizenry is now a good thing.

Yeah what happened to, "you don't stand a chance against the government if they decided to attack you, having a gun won't do you any good against tanks and missiles!"

[seanD]

Yeah what happened to, "you don't stand a chance against the government if they decided to attack you, having a gun won't do you any good against tanks and missiles!"

And it's less likely US government (the institution arms is protecting us against) would even use those weapons against their own armed citizens.