World War Three?

[Gondwanaland]

Just saying, it blurs the claim that Russia is committing "war crimes" against civilians when the civilians are acting as combatants. Still wrong since they are the aggressors and yeah the population has the right to defend their country.

No, it doesn't. They're the ones invading and directing their efforts toward bombing civilians and civilian infrastructure. Ukrainians have two choices: fight back, or run and let their cities be razed.

Let's be even more clear - you and MM wouldnt be saying a word about this sort of silliness if it were the US being invaded and we were fighting back in our cities.

[Sparko]

No, it doesn't. They're the ones invading and directing their efforts toward bombing civilians and civilian infrastructure. Ukrainians have two choices: fight back, or run and let their cities be razed.

Let's be even more clear - you and MM wouldnt be saying a word about this sort of silliness if it were the US being invaded and we were fighting back in our cities.

I am agreeing with you. I am just saying that civilians actually fighting blurs the lines. I think it is a "war crime" to invade another country unprovoked. I was just saying that Russians indiscriminately bombing civilians who are not involved is different from bombing civilians who are also fighting back as far as the legal definition of "war crimes" goes. For example, in Afghanistan, if the Taliban was shooting at our troops from an apartment building and we returned fired it would be different than if our troops just decided to bomb a school.

[Mountain Man]

Well, one new thing is that Ukraine has weaponized their civilian population, handing out guns and making all men between the ages of 18 and 60 stay and fight. And they are fighting from within civilian areas and buldings. I am sure the Russians will claim to just be "defending" themselves, conveniently ignoring the fact that they are the aggressors.

Appears to be another instance of the media painting in black and white when everything is grey.

[Gondwanaland]

Appears to be another instance of the media painting in black and white when everything is grey.

The US citizenry is armed. You wouldn't be saying a peep if we were the ones whose cities were being bombed and invaded and were fighting back.

[seer]

Appears to be another instance of the media painting in black and white when everything is grey.

There is nothing gray about Russia attacking the Ukraine - which was not a threat...

[Mountain Man]

There is nothing gray about Russia attacking the Ukraine - which was not a threat...

There are a lot of questions we simply don't have answers to.

[Mountain Man]

The US citizenry is armed. You wouldn't be saying a peep if we were the ones whose cities were being bombed and invaded and were fighting back.

Look, if what we're being told is true, then Russia are certainly the aggressors, and the people of Ukraine certainly have a right to pick up arms to defend themselves, but at that point, they become combatants and are no longer innocent bystanders which changes the rules of engagement and would make it no longer a war crime to attack them.

I'm just not certain that everything we're being told is true which leaves a lot of grey.

[Gondwanaland]

Look, if what we're being told is true, then Russia are certainly the aggressors,

what, the tanks rolling into the capital of another country might be a mirage?

and the people of Ukraine certainly have a right to pick up arms to defend themselves, but at that point, they become combatants and are no longer innocent bystanders which changes the rules of engagement and would make it no longer a war crime to attack them.

I'm just not certain that everything we're being told is true which leaves a lot of grey.

Children are not taking up arms. Most women are not. Sorry but yes it is war crime to bomb civilian buildings and facilities.

[seer]

There are a lot of questions we simply don't have answers to.

Like what?

[Mountain Man]

Like what?

Like Putin's real motivation for attacking, what was Ukraine doing, why was Zelinsky so nonchalant about the whole thing prior to the invasion, why did Joe and his administration seem intent on picking a fight, what's really happening on the ground, and so on. There's a hell of a lot we simply don't know. The fog of war seems particularly thick.

[Mountain Man]

Children are not taking up arms. Most women are not. Sorry but yes it is war crime to bomb civilian buildings and facilities.

Are children and non-combat women being deliberately killed? If so, yes, that's a war crime (as much as any act of war could be considered a crime), but is it really happening?

[seanD]

Like what?

Like what role the US and EU have in all this. It's looking like the west is using Ukraine as a pawn in a much bigger geopolitical game, and have been doing so for a decade. Of course, that doesn't at all excuse what Russia is doing now. Personally, I don't like taking sides when I don't know all the facts, or suspect there are facts being covered up about all this, especially when a lot of deceit and manipulation is involved like we're seeing with all the fake photos and videos.

[Gondwanaland]

Are children and non-combat women being deliberately killed? If so, yes, that's a war crime (as much as any act of war could be considered a crime), but is it really happening?

Yes, it is.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-b2025760.html

Ukraine war: Boy and girl fight for life after Russian soldiers kill their 10 year-old sister and parents


Russian troops opened fire on the family as they were trying to escape Ukraine in a car

Two siblings are fighting for life after their family was shot by Russian forces, killing their parents and sister, as they attempted to flee Ukraine.

Polina was 10-years-old when she and her parents Anton Kudrin and Svetlana Zapadynskaya were killed by Russia’s troops near Kyiv.

The troops opened fire on the family as the latter were in a car trying to escape the capital city on Saturday, on the third day of Vladimir Putin’sinvasion of Ukraine.

Polina’s little brother Semyon and older sister Sofia are in hospital, unaware that their parents and sister are dead

A picture of pink-haired Polina was shared by Volodymyr Bondarenko, the deputy mayor of Kyiv, who said: “Her name was Polina. She studied in the 4th grade of school in Kyiv. Her and her parents were shot by Russian DRG (sabotage reconnaissance groups).”

Her brother Semyon is receiving treatment at Okhmatdyt children's hospital in Kyiv while older sister Sofia is in intensive care at another hospital, Mr Bondarenko said.
At least 16 children have been killed and 45 injured in the first four days of the Russian invasion, Ukrainian president Volodymyr Zelensky said on Monday (28 February).

A six-year-old girl wearing pink unicorn-print pajamas was fatally wounded by shelling in Mariupol on Sunday, and images show medics trying to save her by giving her CPR in an ambulance while her grief-stricken mother weeps.

The article continues in the link

[Mountain Man]

Yes, it is.

At least we're being told it is. The problem with this whole thing is that we only know what the media wants us to know, and they don't necessarily want us to know the truth.

[seer]

Like Putin's real motivation for attacking, what was Ukraine doing, why was Zelinsky so nonchalant about the whole thing prior to the invasion, why did Joe and his administration seem intent on picking a fight, what's really happening on the ground, and so on. There's a hell of a lot we simply don't know. The fog of war seems particularly thick.

Who cares about Putin's motivation? Ukraine was not a threat on any level. And what is happening on the ground - Russia is killing Ukrainians.