The Blue Wall of Silence Is Starting to Crack

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

Those describe the functions a Police Chief (or "Command") should have, but are often usurped by a LABOR UNION.

It is not usurpation. Those individuals have seen their functions curtailed and/or appropriated by another body but that body [in this specific instance] has acted within the law. I realise you regard it as usurpation but it isn't in the literal sense.

[Cow Poke]

It is not usurpation.

It is.

Those individuals have seen their functions curtailed and/or appropriated by another body but that body [in this specific instance] has acted within the law.

archaic [yeah, it's archaic, but so am I ]

• (usurp on/upon)
  encroach or infringe upon (someone's rights).
  "the Church had usurped upon the domain of the state"

The Unions have encroached or infringed upon (usurped) the rightful duties of command.

I realise you regard it as usurpation but it isn't in the literal sense.

And, hence the psychotic pedantry. You must be a blast at parties.

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

You obviously don't understand the concept.

When a union works its way into a police department, it's quite clearly pitting workers against management.
When it gets control, it prevents management from doing their job under threat of a walkout.

That's a usurpation of power, clear and simple.

Nothing illegal about it. Otherwise these unions would have been challenged in the courts and/or deemed illegal organisations.

Using an archaic form of the word doesn't alter the fact that in its modern usage it refers to the seizure of power by force and/or illegally.

I consider you [and several other contributors] to be nice - but I am using the word in its archaic meaning.

[Cow Poke]

Nothing illegal about it.

A usurpation doesn't have to be illegal to be usurpation....

archaic [yeah, it's archaic, but so am I ]

• (usurp on/upon)
  encroach or infringe upon (someone's rights).
  "the Church had usurped upon the domain of the state"

Therefore, the rest of your derail screed is irrelevant.

When you're ready to stop the psychotic pedantry and get back to the topic, lemme know.

[CivilDiscourse]

A usurpation doesn't have to be illegal to be usurpation....

archaic [yeah, it's archaic, but so am I ]

• (usurp on/upon)
  encroach or infringe upon (someone's rights).
  "the Church had usurped upon the domain of the state"

Therefore, the rest of your derail screed is irrelevant.

When you're ready to stop the psychotic pedantry and get back to the topic, lemme know.

She has decided to die on this hill, perhaps because deciding to actually address the main point isn't what she wants.

Besides, regardless of whether the powers were usurped, transfered, given freely, coerced, assumed, defacto, etc. It doesn't change whether or not those powers actually interfere with the ability of police departments to get rid of bad cops. But, she wants to argue about a tangential definition, because that's her game.

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

We done speecify 'Murican just fine.

That is not misuse. That might be deemed a phonetically written form of an argot or patois, Damon Runyon used underworld language to great effect in his short stories.

[Cow Poke]

By the way, the "civil service" thing you tried to introduce a few posts back is another problem with corruption in policing.

Even when there is not a union, if a police department is run under "civil service", it's much more difficult to fire or discipline bad employees.

[rogue06]

Sorry it is the wrong word. The police unions have never "usurped" power. You may think that their power is too great [and in some regards I would agree with you] but they have never seized their position [or power] by illegal seizure or without legal right.

You're relying on the most common usage of the term here. It can also simply mean to "encroach or infringe upon (someone's rights)."

They most definitely did that.

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

By the way, the "civil service" thing you tried to introduce a few posts back is another problem with corruption in policing.

Even when there is not a union, if a police department is run under "civil service", it's much more difficult to fire or discipline bad employees.

Once again there is an issue with comprehension and language. I did not specifically attempt to introduce the civil service [i.e. there was no ulterior motive on my part]. I merely cited an article/link/site that was produced by an organisation that calls itself "Civil Service Success".

[Cow Poke]

Once again there is an issue with comprehension and language. I did not specifically attempt to introduce the civil service [i.e. there was no ulterior motive on my part]. I merely cited an article/link/site that was produced by an organisation that calls itself "Civil Service Success".

Perhaps your comprehension of the way 'civil service' works in real life is as bad as - or worse than - your comprehension of how police unions work?

[rogue06]

That is not misuse. That might be deemed a phonetically written form of an argot or patois, Damon Runyon used underworld language to great effect in his short stories.

Ain't usin' none of that there Cockney rhyming slang $#%@ no how. I'm speechifying good ol 'Murican smiley smugflag.gif

[Cow Poke]

US federal civil service is “broken”, says NAPA

The US federal civil service system is “fundamentally broken” and reforms are urgently needed, a prestigious Washington think-tank has warned in a new report.

The National Academy of Public Administration (NAPA) said that the civil service personnel system, which dates back to the 1940s, is undermining the federal government’s ability to meet the needs of American citizens.

The think-tank’s report, No Time to Wait: Building a 21^st Century Public Service, calls for personnel management to be devolved to individual agencies and departments, giving them power over hiring, firing, motivating and assessing staff.

Same problem -- civil service prevents, or drastically obstructs, management's ability to hire, fire, motivate and assess staff.

Like the LABOR UNIONS prevent police chiefs (and 'command') from disciplining or firing bad cops, 'civil service' does the same regarding government employees.

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

You're relying on the most common usage of the term here.

As defined by several online dictionaries including Merriam-Webster and even the KJV https://av1611.com/kjbp/kjv-dictionary/usurp.html

As noted earlier I regard several of you as nice.

[Cow Poke]

As defined by several online dictionaries including Merriam-Webster and even the KJV https://av1611.com/kjbp/kjv-dictionary/usurp.html

Yeah, whenever you have to resort to arguing over the use of words, you're conceding you have lost the argument.

As noted earlier I regard several of you as nice.

Can you think of even one person on this board who considers YOU "nice"?

[CivilDiscourse]

Yeah, whenever you have to resort to arguing over the use of words, you're conceding you have lost the argument.



Can you think of even one person on this board who considers YOU "nice"?

Probably Oxmixmudd, starlight, firstfloor, etc.