The Blue Wall of Silence Is Starting to Crack

[Cow Poke]

The funny thing is that this isn't unique to police unions. This is exactly the purpose of unions period. They are there to look after their members interests. This includes protecting them from firing, which in turn leads to protections for bad employees. It's not a bug, it's a feature

Absolutely! And I've been paralleling this with the teachers unions -- same thing -- they don't give a flyin' flip about the students or education or schools -- all they care about is collecting union dues and defending the interests of teachers. Just like it's almost impossible to fire a bad teacher, it's almost impossible to fire a bad cop in a union shop.

[Sparko]

I think we are both agreed that corruption cannot ever be entirely ruled out. However, merely giving power from one side to the other with no independent oversight is not the best option, in my opinion.

Where did Cow Poke say not to have any independent oversight?

This is your problem, you have assumed from the start that what Cow Poke said, was his "one and only" solution to Police Corruption. He never claimed anything like that. He was merely talking about one way to HELP stop corruption, by removing organizations that exist only to protect police officer's jobs at any cost. Unions will protect both good and bad officers. They are a factor in why corruption continues in many departments. Not the only factor, nor would eliminating them eliminate all corruption.

Just like body cams and independent oversight will not eliminate police corruption.

In fact, I do know what will eliminate ALL POLICE CORRUPTION.




All we have to do is eliminate the Police! Then there will be no more police corruption.
Problem solved. Then we just need to find a way to stop crime without a police force.

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

Where did Cow Poke say not to have any independent oversight?

He has never referred to any independent oversight in his replies to me.

[CivilDiscourse]

He has never referred to any independent oversight in his replies to me.

Hypatia has never once mentioned that she does not condone • Edited by a Moderator •. So we must assume that she favors it.

[Sparko]

He has never referred to any independent oversight in his replies to me.

so? He never said that was the end-all solution to corruption. There are probably lots of things he didn't mention to you. An argument from silence is a logical fallacy, you know.

[Cow Poke]

He has never referred to any independent oversight in his replies to me.

I wish somebody had independent oversight over that ditzy old biddy from Germany to stop her from being such a pedantic gripey old .

Does that do it?

[Cow Poke]

Hypatia has never once mentioned that she does not condone ----------------------. So we must assume that she favors it.

CD - while the mods address this, PLEASE stop using that very offensive term, OK?

[Cow Poke]

so? He never said that was the end-all solution to corruption. There are probably lots of things he didn't mention to you. An argument from silence is a logical fallacy, you know.

Correct -- I keep going back to her OP where it says, in part.... [bolding and embiggening mine]

We need every cop to wear a body camera. We need to curb the power of police unions, the biggest protectors of the blue wall. And we need officers of all stripes to back the words of those 14 in Minneapolis. They said, “This is not who we are.” Now prove it.

In such an article, it is very common to "save the best for last".

The author clearly stated that the police unions were "the biggest protectors of the blue wall", and that's where the remedial action should be focused.

There are other things that can be done to mitigate the problem -- but this is where, in my opinion, and the opinion of the author -- we should start.

[CivilDiscourse]

I wish somebody had independent oversight over that ditzy old biddy from Germany to stop her from being such a pedantic gripey old .

Does that do it?

I apologize for using offensive imagery when talking about our resident Grammar Nazi. Ive spent too many years dealing with her, and her habit of deflecting when someoned is accuse of anti-semitism, or immediately jumping in when the holocaust was mentioned, etc to believe her as anything other than an anti-semite.

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

so? He never said that was the end-all solution to corruption. There are probably lots of things he didn't mention to you. An argument from silence is a logical fallacy, you know.

He has never told us the name of his favourite auntie either. Your point?

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

You really are dense. It is RESTORING the rightful power to the police administration, mayor and city council, and reining in the abusive power of the police unions, or eliminating them entirely.

Nobody claimed that "transferring power from A to B will eliminate the risk of corruption". That's simply your own dishonest derail.

Why is pointing out that your comments needed some clarification a "derail"? Or is it Also Sprach Cow Poke?.

You need to remember that others are permitted to disagree with, and challenge, you.

My observation simply highlighted a potential flaw , which premised on your replies, you had not addressed.

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

Ignoring your obligatory flatulence....

That appears to be a grudging acknowledgement that you employed the incorrect word re "usurped"

Because he/she is hired/commissioned for that post.

What precise "powers" have been ceded by Police Chiefs to the various Police Unions in the past twenty years?

Are these two links incorrect? If so, in what way[s]?

https://www.govtjobs.com/government-...b-description/

I note that this link pertains to a specific state:

https://www.civilservicesuccess.com/...-police-chief/

[Cow Poke]

That appears to be a grudging acknowledgement that you employed the incorrect word re "usurped"

Nope - 'usurped' is fine because the public never intended the UNIONS to control the police - the legitimate authority of the police lies with its command staff and overseers.

What precise "powers" have been ceded by Police Chiefs to the various Police Unions in the past twenty years?

WOW, you're an incredibly slow learner --- most specifically, the right to discipline and fire bad cops. That's what this whole thing is about.

[Cow Poke]

Why is pointing out that your comments needed some clarification a "derail"? Or is it Also Sprach Cow Poke?.

You need to remember that others are permitted to disagree with, and challenge, you.

My observation simply highlighted a potential flaw , which premised on your replies, you had not addressed.

Baseless whining noted.

[CivilDiscourse]

Baseless whining noted.

Lol. She's "disagreeing with you" by not exerting any real effort, not offing a counter argument, no counter points, no real disagreement, just asking you to explain everything (and really, not caring about the answers you provide, because it's just going to lead to another question.)