It's Confirmed, Men Are Pigs!

[Psychic Missile]

Dont know. But neither would she. And why does finding a woman attractive equate harassment? If they said hello to an ugly woman would that still be harassment? How about if they said hello to a guy?

I do know and she knows. They say hello to her because she's attractive. They are not striking up a conversation. They are cat calling. Cat calling is harassment.

[seanD]

That's a factor of novelty. If you knew, walking out on any given day, that you might have three to ten people wolf-whistle and catcall, would it still make your day? If you knew, instinctively or from experience, that any of those verbal solicitations might be followed by physical intimidation, harassment, or assault, would you still feel great about the first catcall?

I think this sort of statement is only possible to make from the safety of not having experienced catcalling on a daily or even weekly basis.

I'm not condoning catcalling of men to women that you and Leonhard seem to think, and understand that men can be intimidating to women in that situation. I'm just pointing out the irony. I know when a strange girl just says hi to me in the streets or gives me eye contact as I pass her by, it feeds my ego. That's ironic. Or maybe it's a paradox.

[Zymologist]

I do know and she knows. They say hello to her because she's attractive. They are not striking up a conversation. They are cat calling. Cat calling is harassment.

Wait...so saying hello to someone who you happen to find attractive is cat calling? I've never heard that before.

[Darth Executor]

by the way, its polite to wave or say hello in the south. Cat calls are unacceptable, and if you greet a woman in a "cat call manner" whose a victim of sexual harrassment, you'll get kicked in the nuts. FYI

Don't try that in the North.

http://www.salon.com/2014/08/13/man_...op_catcallers/

[Darth Executor]

Catcalling is just a particularly uncivilized expression of the male imperative to pursue women (since the opposite will simply never happen to most of them, they have to be proactive in finding a mate). Those who pointed out that women only find it "harassment" if the guy isn't attractive to them are right. In this particular case the woman in question appears to be racist and classist since most of the men talking to her are lower class blacks.

And I should probably take this chance to point out that people are not all that honest about what they like. See Emma Watson and the derision she received for her hypocrisy in a recent UN speech:

[Sparko]

I do know and she knows. They say hello to her because she's attractive. They are not striking up a conversation. They are cat calling. Cat calling is harassment.

oh my you are such a sensitive guy! I bet all the girls love you.

Puh-leeze.

So greeting a girl you don't find attractive would not be cat-calling?

You are showing yourself to be a sexist pig. I hope you realize that.

[Leonhard]

oh my you are such a sensitive guy! I bet all the girls love you.

Puh-leeze.

So greeting a girl you don't find attractive would not be cat-calling?

You are showing yourself to be a sexist pig. I hope you realize that.

I think psychic_missile is overactively defending the right position, but I don't think he's wrong in his approach. Married men have no reason giving sexually implicit compliments to other women than their wife. Bachelors ought to be gentlemen and strike up a conversation, and have reasonable confidence that the woman is interested their advances.

While we can identify a spectrum between saying 'Hello, looking good today Charlene" all the way up to "Hey baby, want a ride? Yeah bend over I'll ride you home." It doesn't mean that you never cross a line. Since we like agree on that, the question is where to draw the line? Communication can't be it, waving and saying hi still too little, looks and glances shouldn't be a problem... oogling and starring, that's obviously starting to be unwelcome, walking up to a woman on the street complimenting the size of her breasts and how erotic she appears, that's just not right.

What do you think Sparko?

[Zymologist]

I think psychic_missile is overactively defending the right position, but I don't think he's wrong in his approach. Married men have no reason giving sexually implicit compliments to other women than their wife. Bachelors ought to be gentlemen and strike up a conversation, and have reasonable confidence that the woman is interested their advances.

While we can identify a spectrum between saying 'Hello, looking good today Charlene" all the way up to "Hey baby, want a ride? Yeah bend over I'll ride you home." It doesn't mean that you never cross a line. Since we like agree on that, the question is where to draw the line? Communication can't be it, waving and saying hi still too little, looks and glances shouldn't be a problem... oogling and starring, that's obviously starting to be unwelcome, walking up to a woman on the street complimenting the size of her breasts and how erotic she appears, that's just not right.

What do you think Sparko?

I can agree with all this; I'm more confused by the apparent conclusion that talking to a woman at all is harassment. At least Sam and PM have both seemed to say that even saying hi is harassment.

[Sparko]

I think psychic_missile is overactively defending the right position, but I don't think he's wrong in his approach. Married men have no reason giving sexually implicit compliments to other women than their wife. Bachelors ought to be gentlemen and strike up a conversation, and have reasonable confidence that the woman is interested their advances.

While we can identify a spectrum between saying 'Hello, looking good today Charlene" all the way up to "Hey baby, want a ride? Yeah bend over I'll ride you home." It doesn't mean that you never cross a line. Since we like agree on that, the question is where to draw the line? Communication can't be it, waving and saying hi still too little, looks and glances shouldn't be a problem... oogling and starring, that's obviously starting to be unwelcome, walking up to a woman on the street complimenting the size of her breasts and how erotic she appears, that's just not right.

What do you think Sparko?

I agree. My point was that many of the comments in the video were of the sort "Hello." "Have a blessed day" etc. But PM with his mind-reading skills thinks that is harassment (if you find the woman attractive). And a some of the hello type comments were made by people passing her from the other way, and they didn't even stop.

The guys that were sitting on the side of the street just shouting comments at her like "Looking good!" and "Damn!" and so on, were doing what is called cat-calling and could be harassment.

I noticed that most of those were young black guys, and I think it is mostly about showing off for their buddies on the street, trying to act "macho"

Watch this video:

[Sam]

I can agree with all this; I'm more confused by the apparent conclusion that talking to a woman at all is harassment. At least Sam and PM have both seemed to say that even saying hi is harassment.

No, dude. I haven't said anything like that. I have said that people who are taking offense at this video because they think women should react differently to someone saying hello and someone explicitly objectifying or harassing them need to understand that the environment of harassment makes any unsolicited greeting from a stranger suspect. So the argument, heard by some here and elsewhere, that women need to just understand the difference between a catcall and a sincere greeting misses the point of public places as a hostile environment for women.

I haven't seen Psychic Missile arguing that simple hellos constitute harassment, either.

[Bill the Cat]

Sparko and Bill, do you think those people saying "hello" were egalitarian with their greeting, or do you think they reserved it for women they find attractive?

Well, considering you only get to see ONE interaction they make with anyone, that's called a fallacy of improper sample size. Trying to make a determination based off of one single interaction is fallacious to the core.

[Bill the Cat]

I do know and she knows.

How? Did you locate these men and study their reactions for a sufficient period of time to make a scientific evaluation and come to a 100% certainty? Or do you suddenly reject the Scientific Method when it suits your needs, Jorge er, PM...?

They say hello to her because she's attractive.

That is the level of arrogance I am referring to. Who says she is attractive? I don't find her attractive in the least bit. She appears broody and self-centered.

They are not striking up a conversation.

So, a greeting is a conversation? Again, scientific method out the port window...

They are cat calling.

I heard no meows.

Cat calling is harassment.

And pulling over people driving on the sidewalk is profiling...

[Zymologist]

No, dude. I haven't said anything like that. I have said that people who are taking offense at this video because they think women should react differently to someone saying hello and someone explicitly objectifying or harassing them need to understand that the environment of harassment makes any unsolicited greeting from a stranger suspect. So the argument, heard by some here and elsewhere, that women need to just understand the difference between a catcall and a sincere greeting misses the point of public places as a hostile environment for women.

I haven't seen Psychic Missile arguing that simple hellos constitute harassment, either.

Here's some examples of why I said that:

Virtually none of what's shown in this video is acceptable. It's very diminishing and often enough outright threatening.

You are including all the instances of greetings in the video here, and saying they aren't acceptable.

Just FYI , I know in a lot of places greetings are common. In NYC, that number of greetings and comments would take a man a lifetime to reach. It's not friendliness, it's cat calling.

And I believe that's what might be getting missed by the folks making the argument that a lot of this is just polite hellos. Given that the problem of catcalling and "street harassment" is so common, a woman cannot necessarily take even a polite hello at face value — just like that man who followed this woman for five minutes illustrates, there's always a real risk that a "polite hello" is just as much a solicitation as an explicit catcall. And when women are faced with a culture of catcalling, it forces a change in public behavior. Even in places where friendly hellos are common in public (I haven't noticed too much difference between the South and Northern Midwest in this aspect), the prevalence of harassment in public places makes such pleasantries a real threat to women.

Here you say that a woman can't necessarily take a polite hello as a polite hello--presumably that she should instead treat it as a form of harassment.

Sparko and Bill, do you think those people saying "hello" were egalitarian with their greeting, or do you think they reserved it for women they find attractive?

I do know and she knows. They say hello to her because she's attractive. They are not striking up a conversation. They are cat calling. Cat calling is harassment.

So sorry if I misunderstood, but I hope you can see why I thought that. You guys appeared to, repeatedly, classify a simple greeting as either a form of harassment, or something that should be treated as harassment.

I've got no issue at all with what you've said about cat calling; I find that juvenile, disrespectful, and just pretty dumb all around.

[Andius]

Oh this is most amusing. Now the video is getting bashed that there is an excessive amount of Latinos and Blacks, heheheheheh. And it's a good point as well. Especially in light that Whites ARE still the majority ethnicity in New York City.

http://www.businessinsider.com/the-p...ampaign=buffer

[seer]

Oh this is most amusing. Now the video is getting bashed that there is an excessive amount of Latinos and Blacks, heheheheheh. And it's a good point as well. Especially in light that Whites ARE still the majority ethnicity in New York City.

http://www.businessinsider.com/the-p...ampaign=buffer

More specifically, it’s a video of a young white woman who is harassed by mostly black and Latino men as she walks around New York City for ten hours.

Does that mean that black and Latino men are more aggressive or less polite?