Perform Same-Sex Marriage Or Go To Jail !!!!!!

[robrecht]

The key question:

Is it possible that the Knapps forgot that they had already registered with the state as a religious corporation on October 6th and therefore were already exempt from the ordinance? That seems to be the key question.

[robrecht]

And I suspect that you would support the state here too: http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/sh...over-Abortions

Is see your ability to guess my beliefs has not improved.

[seer]

Is see your ability to guess my beliefs has not improved.

Well you seem to be in lock step with the almighty state and political correctness on just about every issue we discuss.

[robrecht]

Well you seem to be in lock step with the almighty state and political correctness on just about every issue we discuss.

Almighty state? Seriously? I think you're just trolling.

[seer]

Almighty state? Seriously? I think you're just trolling.

Nope, just reporting the facts as I see them...

[Darth Executor]

And I should pay any attention to a site by someone called Center Against Religious Extremism? Why not honest news sites?

Read it, it pretty much confirms the story is accurate and you get to read knee slapping statements like this one:

"First, “being forced to shut down their businesses” is stretching the truth massively. If a business owner chooses to shut their business rather than follow the law of the state that licenses them to do business, that’s not “being forced.”"

[robrecht]

Nope, just reporting the facts as I see them...

But your 'suspicions' do not quite qualify as 'facts'. You do see the difference, right?

[phank]

Read it, it pretty much confirms the story is accurate and you get to read knee slapping statements like this one:

"First, “being forced to shut down their businesses” is stretching the truth massively. If a business owner chooses to shut their business rather than follow the law of the state that licenses them to do business, that’s not “being forced.”"

I agree, there's something comical about that. Does he not realize the root word of "enforced"? Laws are enforced. That means, you are forced to follow them. Saying "you aren't forced to obey the speed limit because you can choose not to drive" is just playing word games.

Now, there is no requirement that any political body pass laws that stand up to judicial scrutiny. The American politcal and legal system does not practice "pre-vetting" of proposed legislation, and for good reason -- one really doesn't know how any legislation will apply to as-yet-undefined fact situations. And what that means is, you MUST follow a law until such time as the courts might toss it out. I doubt the courts will toss out this particular ordinance, but they might "distinguish" it beyond recognition.

[seer]

But your 'suspicions' do not quite qualify as 'facts'. You do see the difference, right?

You mean like the fact that you take the liberal side on just about every political issue?

[robrecht]

You mean like the fact that you take the liberal side on just about every political issue?

Liberal compared to you perhaps, and perhaps with reference to the issues you feel are most important. There's a fair amount of interpretation there but at least you might point to objective positions of mine, of which you are actually aware. But when you move into your 'suspicions' about what position I presumably hold, you are are no longer speaking of facts, but just your own suspicions. You really don't see the difference?

[Jedidiah]

To operate legally within a state as a church or business? Specifically, if they want their religious or civil marriage ceremonies to be recognized by the state, I would presume there must be a certain amount of paperwork involved.

My point is why should a small business have to be recognized by the state as a religious based business to keep their God given rights?

[robrecht]

My point is why should a small business have to be recognized by the state as a religious based business to keep their God given rights?

How else is the state/city supposed to know that a group is claiming an exemption based on their religious identity? I imagine the application/registration process should also allow for good communication and review of what groups and exemptions are recognized by the state and what may not be (eg, racial discrimination, polygamy, underage marriage).

[Jedidiah]

How else is the state/city supposed to know that a group is claiming an exemption based on their religious identity? I imagine the application/registration process should also allow for good communication and review of what groups and exemptions are recognized by the state and what may not be (eg, racial discrimination, polygamy, underage marriage).

Why should they need an exemption in the first place. Sexual choice is not at all the same as race and should not be included in the statutes. No one could recognize a homosexual if they did not shove the fact in peoples faces.

[robrecht]

Why should they need an exemption in the first place. Sexual choice is not at all the same as race and should not be included in the statutes. No one could recognize a homosexual if they did not shove the fact in peoples faces.

Freedom of religion protects the rights of gay people who feel they have a right to marriage as well as those who claim a religious right not to officiate at a gay marriage. You may not want to recognize the gay person's rights because of your own religious beliefs, but in the eyes of the state your religious rights are not inherently superior to those of the gay person. If you want the state to recognize your right to not recognize someone else's rights based on your religious beliefs, they ask you to fill out a piece of paper stating this. On the other hand, if you want to go into business offering marriage services, civil services and religious services for those who belong to other religions than your own, or no religion, why shouldn't you have to follow the same laws as everyone else? Nonetheless, the state will allow you to not follow the same laws as everyone else if you claim that this is part of your own religious freedom. For some reason, you just don't want to make this claim in writing?

[Darth Executor]

Freedom of religion protects the rights of gay people who feel they have a right to marriage

wat