Coronavirus Outbreak...

[carpedm9587]

And if we look back at this thing on election day, and most people say, "You know, things could have been a lot worse. The President did a good job," it will only be because not enough people suffered, right? Admit it, that would rankle you.

If Trump is re-elected on 11/3 because people say "he did a good job," my feelings will depend on the reality. I see a couple possible scenarios.

1) He will have actually moderated his behavior, turned the effort around, leaving me with no reason to question his character anymore. That will leave me with only his policies, most of which I dislike. So I will probably begin to treat him as I did Bush I and Bush II: not deserving of my vote (because of policies), but "My president" if he is re-elected. Unfortunately, it will not erase the damage he has already done. However, I will remain a U.S. citizen. I consider this scenario possible, but history and current events suggest it is highly improbable.

2) He will not have actually moderated his behavior, nor turned the effort around, but his base will still be rabidly devoted to him and claiming he did, and they will have muddied the waters enough to once again con enough people to give him an electoral college win. That will leave me where I am now: unwilling to accept him as "my president." But I will also be unwilling to continue to associate myself with a country that has gone so badly off the rails. I will sell my home, pick any new country I can move to, and as soon as I can gain citizenship in a new country I find more in line with my personal values, I will renounce my U.S. citizenship. I consider this scenario possible, and history as well as current events suggest it is well within the bounds of probable.

If he is not relected, I will be dancing in the street and will probably post it live on my Facebook page! But if part of the reason was that he was not re-elected, I will also mourn the people who died or harmed by him over the course of 4 years, and the people who will continue to be harmed as we try to undo the various harms he has inflicted on the U.S. and the world. I am hoping the probability of this scenario is higher than the last, obviously.

And this will be my last post on this theme. Feel free to make the last comment. I trust that the casual reader will understand my intent.

[Mountain Man]

I will sell my home, pick any new country I can move to, and as soon as I can gain citizenship in a new country I find more in line with my personal values, I will renounce my U.S. citizenship.

Promise?

I mean, a lot of liberals said the same thing last election, but unfortunately, they're still here.

[Mountain Man]

The fact that it could have been a lot worse in no way implies that the president did a good job.

You're right. It implies that things weren't worse because the President did a good job.

[carpedm9587]

Promise?

I mean, a lot of liberals said the same thing last election, but unfortunately, they're still here.

I have no idea what "liberals" promised in 2016. I personally don't know anyone who made that claim or commitment in 2016. I know I didn't. But 2020 is different. One election can be written off as an aberration. Two is a trend reflective of a core shift in this country.

We have already started the process of selling our home. If Trump is out, then we will begin our original retirement plan, which included travel around the world but with the U.S. as our home base. If Trump is in, we will look for another home base and renounce citizenship as soon as we can successfully gain citizenship elsewhere. The damage Trump has done while somewhat constrained by his need to get re-elected is significant enough. The damage he will do when that need no longer exists, and the long-term harm that will be done to the judiciary will not be repaired in my lifetime. I'm not a hero. I have no desire to spend the last years of my life fighting a war I cannot win in a country that has drifted that badly off course. So yes - I will move on.

[Charles]

You're right. It implies that things weren't worse because the President did a good job.

It does not. Must be tiresome to have to twist even basic logic but apologists, and among those, Trump apologists, have been trained by the circumstances to do so.

[Mountain Man]

If Trump is in, we will look for another home base and renounce citizenship as soon as we can successfully gain citizenship elsewhere.

[Mountain Man]

It does not.

Does too.

[Charles]

Does too.

Nobody knows more about twisting basic logic than you.

[carpedm9587]

Nobody knows more about twisting basic logic than you.

You're being trolled, Charles. I suggest you just let it go. And I am hereby taking my own advice...


ETA: well, after one more post...

[Mountain Man]

Nobody knows more about twisting basic logic than you.

Learning how to untangle twisted logic is a valuable skill when debating people like you and carpe.

[Cow Poke]

...If Trump is in, we will look for another home base and renounce citizenship as soon as we can successfully gain citizenship elsewhere....

Ah, come on, be brave - do the "man without a country" thing!

[carpedm9587]

I find your celebration odd, MM. My abandoning my citizenship would have close to zero impact on you. I live in a state that is so blue, Smurfs vacation here, so the loss of my vote will have little/no impact. And Tweb can be accessed from anywhere in the world. I'll just become a StarLight clone...

New Zealand is definitely on the list...but I'm not sure how hard it would be to gain citizenship. Maybe if I'm bringing my retirement holdings with me they will be more welcoming?

[carpedm9587]

Ah, come on, be brave - do the "man without a country" thing!

Well...I will definitely consider it as an option - but my understanding is that it's a nasty way to live with limited flexibility for travel. And I'd rather be able to get a passport so I can visit for family events.

But I am hoping all of this will be unnecessary - and our country will wake up to the con man that was put in office.

[Mountain Man]

I find your celebration odd, MM. My abandoning my citizenship would have close to zero impact on you. I live in a state that is so blue, Smurfs vacation here, so the loss of my vote will have little/no impact. And Tweb can be accessed from anywhere in the world. I'll just become a StarLight clone...

New Zealand is definitely on the list...but I'm not sure how hard it would be to gain citizenship. Maybe if I'm bringing my retirement holdings with me they will be more welcoming?

My prediction: Trump will leave office in January 2025 after completing his second term, and you will still be living in the US with citizenship intact.

[carpedm9587]

My prediction: Trump will leave office in January 2025 after completing his second term, and you will still be living in the US with citizenship intact.

We'll see...

My prediction: Trump will be shown the door in 2021 and none of this will be necessary.