The irony of the New York Times� 1619 Project...

[Sparko]

Liberals end up being plenty full of NIMBY folk, true. So a better redress than public housing might be, say, federally-guaranteed home ownership loans and strict regulations on housing so that things like devaluing majority-black neighborhood homeowners' property and decreasing home values in a neighborhood after several black families move in stop happening.

--Sam

The problem doesn't seem to exist in many rural areas, where blacks and whites get along as neighbors just fine and the blacks are at the same economic level as the whites. I live in a smallish town outside of a city. In the city the blacks are mostly on one side of town and it is an area where you probably don't want to go after dark. In my neighborhood, we have a mix of white, black, and hispanic. We all have houses that are about the same value, our kids all go to the same school, we have block parties and other neighborhood activities and pretty low crime (some kids have been going through unlocked cars and sometimes things get stolen off of porches, but the police say it is people outside of the neighborhood) and our home values are all pretty high, in the 200K range, up about 50% from 10 years ago when I bought my home.

I have lived in a lot of places (dad was in the Army) and we mostly lived in the suburbs but in the city a few times, and I saw the same in other places.

[Sparko]

I'm sincerely confused about what he's even arguing. If he was steered away from living in a neighborhood because it was "black" then the people who steered him away from it were racists. I don't know about him, but I don't hang in those circles. I've been steered away from neighborhoods because they were crime-ridden (some were majority black, some were majority white), but never specifically because they were filled with black people. I stupidly turned down a home a couple years ago that was in a poor part of town (mixed black and white), not because of the bad people there, but because I was told that you shouldn't buy the nicest house on the block, since you'll never get your money out of it. But I'm not really looking for an investment, I'm looking for a home. Some place with character that I like, even if no one else would buy it from me. Most people i know are consecutively on their 2nd or 3rd house. I don't plan on going anywhere, so I just want one, and don't care where it is as long as I don't have to constantly worry about break-ins and I'm in the city.

When I bought my house, I didn't ask about my neighbors, like what color they are. Nor did I hang around and watch to see. I just looked the neighborhood up online, checked the crime stats, relative age of the neighborhood (I wanted a newer home) and looked where the nearest fire and police departments were. Then I checked out the houses and decided to buy one.

[Mountain Man]

I was told that you shouldn't buy the nicest house on the block, since you'll never get your money out of it.

The general wisdom for home purchasing is to buy the cheapest house in the nicest neighborhood that you can afford.

[Mountain Man]

When I bought my house, I didn't ask about my neighbors, like what color they are. Nor did I hang around and watch to see. I just looked the neighborhood up online, checked the crime stats, relative age of the neighborhood (I wanted a newer home) and looked where the nearest fire and police departments were. Then I checked out the houses and decided to buy one.

Yep... the two realtors I've dealt with in the past two-decades didn't "steer" me in any particular direction, or make any comment about the demographics of a given neighborhood. It sounds like ox just happened to do business with an overt racist and is wrongly assuming that all realtors operate with the same mentality. Like lilpixie said, it's a classic case of confirmation bias.

[Adrift]

The general wisdom for home purchasing is to buy the cheapest house in the nicest neighborhood that you can afford.

Yeah, that's what my realtors keep saying, but I don't tend to care too much for the houses in the nice neighborhoods.

[seer]

When I bought my house, I didn't ask about my neighbors, like what color they are. Nor did I hang around and watch to see. I just looked the neighborhood up online, checked the crime stats, relative age of the neighborhood (I wanted a newer home) and looked where the nearest fire and police departments were. Then I checked out the houses and decided to buy one.

My neighbor is mixed Hispanics and blacks outnumber whites. And we all get along. The neighborhood I grew up in was largely Italian immigrants, with a good mix of blacks. Again we all got along fine and the black kids I grew up with did as well as me if not better in life, but we all had intact families.

[Sparko]

My neighbor is mixed Hispanics and blacks outnumber whites. And we all get along. The neighborhood I grew up in was largely Italian immigrants, with a good mix of blacks. Again we all got along fine and the black kids I grew up with did as well as me if not better in life, but we all had intact families.

We have a lesbian couple across the street. We are so progressive.

[KingsGambit]

The town I grew up in was the most diverse one in the metro area outside of the urban core. Probably not coincidentally, we also had the reputation for being trashy, but a major part of maturity is learning not to care what other people think about you

[Sparko]

You are saying that I lied regarding what I said I did. That's not saying I'm "incorrect", it's saying that I'm not telling the truth. I understand that the moderation around here might be getting a little lax but I don't appreciate someone making an unsubstantiated accusation that I'm lying about my own actions.

--Sam

OK here is what happened. I didn't even notice the twitter claim in your post. I must have read it and skimmed by it when I made my snide comment. I was not accusing you of lying. If you had mentioned something like, "I said I found it on twitter, not google" - I would have said, "Oh, sorry. I didn't see that" and it would have been done with. But you accused me of calling you a liar and I dug my heels in. I shouldn't have done that, and I apologize for my stubbornness. I did not call you a liar, though.

[Sam]

OK here is what happened. I didn't even notice the twitter claim in your post. I must have read it and skimmed by it when I made my snide comment. I was not accusing you of lying. If you had mentioned something like, "I said I found it on twitter, not google" - I would have said, "Oh, sorry. I didn't see that" and it would have been done with. But you accused me of calling you a liar and I dug my heels in. I shouldn't have done that, and I apologize for my stubbornness. I did not call you a liar, though.

I accept that explanation and apology; that sounds like a reasonable explanation of a misunderstanding. I do sincerely appreciate it.

--Sam

[lilpixieofterror]

I'm sincerely confused about what he's even arguing. If he was steered away from living in a neighborhood because it was "black" then the people who steered him away from it were racists. I don't know about him, but I don't hang in those circles. I've been steered away from neighborhoods because they were crime-ridden (some were majority black, some were majority white), but never specifically because they were filled with black people. I stupidly turned down a home a couple years ago that was in a poor part of town (mixed black and white), not because of the bad people there, but because I was told that you shouldn't buy the nicest house on the block, since you'll never get your money out of it. But I'm not really looking for an investment, I'm looking for a home. Some place with character that I like, even if no one else would buy it from me. Most people i know are consecutively on their 2nd or 3rd house. I don't plan on going anywhere, so I just want one, and don't care where it is as long as I don't have to constantly worry about break-ins and I'm in the city.

[seer]

We have a lesbian couple across the street. We are so progressive.

I want a lesbian couple so I can be cool too!

[lilpixieofterror]

Yeah, that's what my realtors keep saying, but I don't tend to care too much for the houses in the nice neighborhoods.

[Sam]

I'm sincerely confused about what he's even arguing. If he was steered away from living in a neighborhood because it was "black" then the people who steered him away from it were racists. I don't know about him, but I don't hang in those circles. I've been steered away from neighborhoods because they were crime-ridden (some were majority black, some were majority white), but never specifically because they were filled with black people. I stupidly turned down a home a couple years ago that was in a poor part of town (mixed black and white), not because of the bad people there, but because I was told that you shouldn't buy the nicest house on the block, since you'll never get your money out of it. But I'm not really looking for an investment, I'm looking for a home. Some place with character that I like, even if no one else would buy it from me. Most people i know are consecutively on their 2nd or 3rd house. I don't plan on going anywhere, so I just want one, and don't care where it is as long as I don't have to constantly worry about break-ins and I'm in the city.

Racial discrimination in housing is still frequent. Often, it occurs without explicit racial markers. Folks (generally) aren't going to say "You don't want to move into that neighborhood, too many black people". What often happens is that black buyers are shown fewer homes in fewer areas and majority-white (mainly suburban) neighborhoods are progressively priced out of range of black families (and lending institutions have racial discrimination problems just like everything else).

Image 010.jpg

Housing Discrimination Against Racial and Ethnic Minorities 2012. HUD

[lilpixieofterror]

Racial discrimination in housing is still frequent. Often, it occurs without explicit racial markers. Folks (generally) aren't going to say "You don't want to move into that neighborhood, too many black people". What often happens is that black buyers are shown fewer homes in fewer areas and majority-white (mainly suburban) neighborhoods are progressively priced out of range of black families (and lending institutions have racial discrimination problems just like everything else).

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Housing Discrimination Against Racial and Ethnic Minorities 2012. HUD