The irony of the New York Times� 1619 Project...

[Mountain Man]

This is starting to sound suspiciously like a conspiracy theory.

[Sam]

It would do you both well to learn and practice active reading. In this case, understanding the difference between "can" and "is doing".

--Sam

This is starting to sound suspiciously like a conspiracy theory.

[lilpixieofterror]

This is starting to sound suspiciously like a conspiracy theory.

Because it is. People are no longer dependent on realtors to show them listings. They are online and can be found by anyone with a computer and basic search knowledge.

[lilpixieofterror]

It would do you both well to learn and practice active reading. In this case, understanding the difference between "can" and "is doing".

--Sam

[Sam]

Your contention was that the advent of online real estate listings eliminates the opportunity for a real estate agent to actively or passively insert racial discrimination into the home buying process. That is not the case, since the algorithms that display, rank, and feature home listings are themselves prone to racial bias.

Whether any listings can be proven to have this bias is irrelevant to refuting your blanket contention. Especially given the frequency with which we find implicit biases "written into" algorithms.

--Sam

[lilpixieofterror]

Your contention was that the advent of online real estate listings eliminates the opportunity for a real estate agent to actively or passively insert racial discrimination into the home buying process. That is not the case, since the algorithms that display, rank, and feature home listings are themselves prone to racial bias.

Whether any listings can be proven to have this bias is irrelevant to refuting your blanket contention. Especially given the frequency with which we find implicit biases "written into" algorithms.

--Sam

And how does the software know your race, without telling it?

[Sam]

Again, it feels unnecessary to describe the basics of online profiling and big/deep data collection.

Since we're here, though, PSA to all interested: don't use Google/Facebook/etc. as a universal login option. Separate accounts everywhere. It won't help -much- but it's better than nothing.

--Sam

And how does the software know your race, without telling it?

[oxmixmudd]

Explaining the entire concept of online profiling and deep data seems like a useless endeavor at this point.

--Sam

It is. They have no clue.

Jim

[lilpixieofterror]

Again, it feels unnecessary to describe the basics of online profiling and big/deep data collection.

Since we're here, though, PSA to all interested: don't use Google/Facebook/etc. as a universal login option. Separate accounts everywhere. It won't help -much- but it's better than nothing.

--Sam

And your evidence that Zillow and other realtor search sites are using big data to prevent blacks from seeing listings in white neighborhoods is what?

[Sam]

Active reading. Useful skill. Necessary, even.

--Sam

And your evidence that Zillow and other realtor search sites are using big data to prevent blacks from seeing listings in white neighborhoods is what?

[lilpixieofterror]

Active reading. Useful skill. Necessary, even.

--Sam

[Sparko]

The upshot here is that we're not starting from scratch when it comes to finding out why, in aggregate, these housing discrepancies occur. There are a lot of different specific aspects to housing market discrepancies and discrimination but truckloads of work has been done identifying how racism, both historical and contemporary, impacts white and non-white homeowners (in aggregate) differently.

That's where we're starting from today, with that wealth of knowledge already built up. How we go about addressing it will require a lot of different specific responses, most of which won't necessarily be racially-targeted as redress. But if we don't explicitly factor racism into the problem, it'll stay embedded in whatever solutions we devise.

--Sam

That sounds suspiciously like, "Hi, I totally ignored your post, waiting my turn to just repeat my previous points. Thanks."

[Sam]

My apologies. I heard you, just not sure what we do with that -- whether your experience is applicable to the larger way of things depends on whether it's representative. And the way we find out if it's representative is through empirical studies. So we should look to the wealth of studies we have available.

--Sam

That sounds suspiciously like, "Hi, I totally ignored your post, waiting my turn to just repeat my previous points. Thanks."

[Sparko]

It was the price, see? If you looked at cheap houses, they would be in BLACK neighborhoods and if you looked at more expensive homes, they would be in WHITE neighborhoods. Because blacks are poor and whites are rich. Don't ya know nothing?

[Sparko]

Your contention was that the advent of online real estate listings eliminates the opportunity for a real estate agent to actively or passively insert racial discrimination into the home buying process. That is not the case, since the algorithms that display, rank, and feature home listings are themselves prone to racial bias.

so assuming that is true and the algorithms favor houses in white neighborhoods. Then wouldn't it actually be helping to even out the racial mix because it would be presenting white neighborhood listings to non-white searchers as well as the white searchers?