So what is this toxic masculinity thing anyhow?

[seer]

Most women I know want to be treated respectfully and as an equal. If they think they are being condescended to because they are a woman - they will say so instantly. They don't like being called "darlin'" and "sweetie" and "dear." They have no objection to being bought dinner, if they also are buying their share.

Perhaps it's a regional thing - or maybe it's a question of what circles on travels in.

No, it is a biological thing, women prefer dominant men for a reason...

Large, dominant men can offer greater protection to their partners and children from other men, and were likely to have been better providers of food and other resources throughout our evolutionary history. This suggests that it is adaptive, in evolutionary terms, for women to be attracted to such men and to choose them as partners.

http://theconversation.com/women-sho...evitable-98159

[Cow Poke]

Here in the South calling a waitress darling, honey or sweetie (and being addressed in a similar fashion by them) is just not thought of being condescending but rather as friendly.

Yeah, I guess I was thinking of the creepy "leisure suit larry" kind of guy.... you're not entirely absolutely totally wrong here.

[One Bad Pig]

I don't think further discussion is likely to be productive. You appear to be locked into your mindset.

CEPG0BtWoAAlovd.jpg

[carpedm9587]

No, it is a biological thing, women prefer dominant men for a reason...

http://theconversation.com/women-sho...evitable-98159

So your article does not support the claim that "it's a biological thing." Again, you are taking a simple statistic and inferring a cause. You cannot establish that this is "biological" anymore than I could establish that it is "social."

The fact is, as a species, much of our evolutionary history occupied a time where the norm was for the stronger male protected the weaker female and the family. This is 2018 and a lot has changed since that time. So are we carrying over in our society practices/attitudes that are rooted in a time/circumstance that is no longer applicable - or are we truly biologically wired to function this way.

As with most things, I suspect it is a bit of both. However, that has nothing to do with "toxic masculinity." There is nothing wrong with being larger, stronger, etc. They are normal masculine traits. There is nothing wrong with a woman admiring those traits - and even being drawn to them. None of that has anything to do with "toxic masculinity."

[seer]

So your article does not support the claim that "it's a biological thing." Again, you are taking a simple statistic and inferring a cause. You cannot establish that this is "biological" anymore than I could establish that it is "social."

The fact is, as a species, much of our evolutionary history occupied a time where the norm was for the stronger male protected the weaker female and the family. This is 2018 and a lot has changed since that time. So are we carrying over in our society practices/attitudes that are rooted in a time/circumstance that is no longer applicable - or are we truly biologically wired to function this way.

No longer applicable? What world do you live in?

As with most things, I suspect it is a bit of both. However, that has nothing to do with "toxic masculinity." There is nothing wrong with being larger, stronger, etc. They are normal masculine traits. There is nothing wrong with a woman admiring those traits - and even being drawn to them. None of that has anything to do with "toxic masculinity."

It is also about men being dominant. In other words limp wristed, whining Alan Alda types don't make the grade...

[Mountain Man]

It is also about men being dominant. In other words limp wristed, whining Alan Alda types don't make the grade...

Kinda funny you name check Alan Alda, because he definitely fits the bill, but it's ironic that his most well-known character, Hawkeye Pierce who effectively served as a surrogate for Alda's own views on war, was an alpha-male ladies man.

[Bill the Cat]

I don't think further discussion is likely to be productive. You appear to be locked into your mindset.

And I'm trying to get you to see the truth in my position. Unless YOU are locked into YOUR mindset... :hmm:

[Cow Poke]

Kinda funny you name check Alan Alda, because he definitely fits the bill, but it's ironic that his most well-known character, Hawkeye Pierce who effectively served as a surrogate for Alda's own views on war, was an alpha-male ladies man.

And in the Netflix series "Blacklist", he plays an ultra-alpha male dominant controlling deep state mega-man!

[carpedm9587]

No longer applicable? What world do you live in?

One where I buy my meat at the local Hannaford's and I don't go out and bring it down (unless I want to for sport). One in which I don't have to protect my wife and children from bears and wolves. The world is not what it was even 200 years ago, never mind 2,000 or 20,000 years ago.

It is also about men being dominant. In other words limp wristed, whining Alan Alda types don't make the grade...

Wow. Personally, I would think twice before articulating those views in writing and online...

[carpedm9587]

And I'm trying to get you to see the truth in my position. Unless YOU are locked into YOUR mindset... :hmm:

Unfortunately, Bill - your position doesn't even make logical sense. I have no idea how to convey that. If you have a cogent argument supporting it, I'll listen. Otherwise, I'll leave you to it.

[Bill the Cat]

And in the Netflix series "Blacklist", he plays an ultra-alpha male dominant controlling deep state mega-man!

NBC. Netflix is rebroadcasting the earlier seasons. And he gets his in the end of season 2 [/spoiler]

[seer]

One where I buy my meat at the local Hannaford's and I don't go out and bring it down (unless I want to for sport). One in which I don't have to protect my wife and children from bears and wolves. The world is not what it was even 200 years ago, never mind 2,000 or 20,000 years ago.

There is still plenty in this world to protect your family from...

Wow. Personally, I would think twice before articulating those views in writing and online...

Are the PC police watching?

[Cow Poke]

Are the PC police watching?

Always

[carpedm9587]

There is still plenty in this world to protect your family from...

And my wife provides as much (and maybe even more) protection than I do. It's not a gender "Alpha Male" thing anymore.

Are the PC police watching?

No - I just think it doesn't make you look very good. But perhaps you think it does...

[Bill the Cat]

Unfortunately, Bill - your position doesn't even make logical sense.

Of course it does. "Toxic Masculinity" is just the latest in a long line of feminist buzz words, starting with "hegemonic masculinity", that has been used to denigrate traditional manhood. I'm sorry if you can't see that, but it is what it is, and no hand waving can make the past go away.

I have no idea how to convey that. If you have a cogent argument supporting it, I'll listen. Otherwise, I'll leave you to it.

You've yet to convince me that what is being portrayed in the Gillette ad, and what is being portrayed in the media today by radical feminists, have anything to do with actual masculinity. In fact, several of us have stated that the behaviors being shown and discussed are just people being jackasses.