Originally posted by One Bad Pig
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Originally posted by Raphael View PostI know I've said this before but if South Africa, where the per capita poverty levels are way higher than in the US, can make it so every adult has photo ID (used to be an ID book, in the process to changing to a smart card), there is no excuse for the US to ensure that every adult has a photo ID and in a manner where cost is not an issue.
And in SA you pretty much need your photo ID to do anything not just voting. The first one is free, if you loose it the cost is nominal (ZAR140.....or about US$10) and from memory if you can't afford it the cost can be waived.
(In SA all citizens and permanent residents have a photo ID. All others need to have a passport, so also have photo ID)The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Raphael View PostI know I've said this before but if South Africa, where the per capita poverty levels are way higher than in the US, can make it so every adult has photo ID (used to be an ID book, in the process to changing to a smart card), there is no excuse for the US to ensure that every adult has a photo ID and in a manner where cost is not an issue.
Originally posted by Raphael View PostAnd in SA you pretty much need your photo ID to do anything not just voting. The first one is free, if you loose it the cost is nominal (ZAR140.....or about US$10) and from memory if you can't afford it the cost can be waived.(In SA all citizens and permanent residents have a photo ID. All others need to have a passport, so also have photo ID)
Hence my suggestion - if the right is TRULY not looking to disenfranchise voters - then START by implementing a universal ID system that will provide everyone who needs an ID with one at a cost that can be afforded or waived. Once that has been done, and everyone either has one or has had a reasonable opportunity to GET one, THEN make it a mandatory requirement for voter registration and voting. Win-win. Everyone has an ID, no one is disenfranchised, and any worries about "voter fraud" can be allayed.
I see no reason for resisting this suggestion, UNLESS, the real intent of voter registration really has nothing to do with voter fraud - and really is all about minimizing Democrat votes and maximizing Republican votes. I have no problem with "get out the vote" initiatives - and I have no problem with each party working hard to get out its OWN votes. I don't even have a problem with initiatives to try to encourage people of the other party NOT to vote. I view it as unethical, unamerican, and unpatriotic to engage in initiatives that explicitly deny U.S. citizens of access to the polling place (e.g., slashing tires, closing polling locations, requiring specific tests, creating hostile environments, or placing legal obstacles that disproprotionately impact the electorate).The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostIf somebody is so totally unaware of how to function in this society, why would we want them to abuse the sacred right of voting?"I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
"Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
"[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostLiberals would mock you and call this a "show me your papers" society.The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
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Originally posted by Raphael View PostI know I've said this before but if South Africa, where the per capita poverty levels are way higher than in the US, can make it so every adult has photo ID (used to be an ID book, in the process to changing to a smart card), there is no excuse for the US to ensure that every adult has a photo ID and in a manner where cost is not an issue."I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
"Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
"[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein
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Originally posted by Starlight View PostOf course, here in New Zealand where you live now, not everyone has a photo ID, and ID is neither required to enroll to vote (which is a short form which asks for your name and address and date of birth - see here for the online form), nor to actually vote (which again just requires you to know your name and address).
1.) you're always going to get some disenfranchisement from various sources, a easy to roll out Photo ID won't magically change that, but it should hopefully bring an improvement of the situation rather than make it worseBe watchful, stand firm in the faith, act like men, be strong.
1 Corinthians 16:13
"...he [Doherty] is no historian and he is not even conversant with the historical discussions of the very matters he wants to pontificate on."
-Ben Witherington III
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Originally posted by Starlight View PostWhy not have a poll tax, so that only people who are really committed to the sacred right of voting can vote?The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Raphael View PostWhich would be a move to the center.
My honest opinion of American politics? you guys have obliterated your center with people right to hard right and left to hard left with both sides often viciously attacking those who may express a more central opinion.
As long as you have that I believe America suffers as a whole.
We're weird, yes, we know."He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot
"Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman
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Originally posted by Terraceth View PostMy point was more that Teallura seemed to be asking for something contradictory. I posited that considering he probably (when signing up for his candidacy) didn't expect to have any real chance of winning, Doug Jones might not be too concerned about re-election prospects and would just do whatever he wanted to without caring about how it'd affect re-election chances. Teallura's statement of his party caring and it not making him popular were therefore asking him to do two things that seemed at odds with each other.
I think the problem is more the binary nature of things. Give me an elected politician's stance on one particular major issue and I can probably perfectly predict the rest of their major stances 90% of the time because they line up so much."He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot
"Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman
My Personal Blog
My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)
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Originally posted by rogue06 View PostSome of those poor would also be white, correct? And yet the left pretends this would somehow be a supposed burden only on minorities.
This isn't the 19th cent carp. Even home births of someone from a broken family get recorded. Someone, somewhere down the line has needed to produce some sort of documentation in the 18 years it took for a person to become an adult. Things may have changed but when I was a child my parents had to provide the school with a copy of a birth certificate to enroll and for several decades the government has compeled children to get Social Security cards which require documentation.
And again, I suggest how Georgia provides ID cards as a model."He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot
"Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman
My Personal Blog
My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)
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Originally posted by Sparko View Postas far as I know you can't even register to vote much less actually show up to vote without a photo ID. And that is the way it should be."He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot
"Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman
My Personal Blog
My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)
Quill Sword
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Originally posted by carpedm9587 View PostI would be right next to you resisting such a claim. A universal ID system can be a powerful way to create access. The problem, right now, is that the emphasis is on denying access for people to fraudulently vote in multiple places, as well as those who have already shuffled off this mortal coil.Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
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I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist
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Originally posted by Teallaura View PostYou evaluated my position correctly - Jones is not going to have an easy time of this because he can't please everyone that he needs to please.
I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
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Originally posted by One Bad Pig View PostFixed that for you.The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
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