Mr. Trump and the Military

[carpedm9587]

You are sounding paranoid. Again, to declare Martial Law, he would need to have the Military on his side. Not just the generals, the entire military. Taking over a country takes a lot of people. Not even republicans who normally support Trump would go along with a take over.

I am sounding paranoid to YOU, and perhaps to others who think as you do here. That stands to reason, since your immediate response is to defend Mr. Trump from pretty much ANY accusation.

And no - he doesn't have to have the entire military. History has shown that to be true in numerous countries. And I do not give one ounce of credence to the claim that Republican politicians would do ANYTHING to contain Mr. Trump, or that his base would do anything other than defend him. What the former has shown for several years now is that they are afraid of Mr. Trump and his base - and they pretty much always fall in line. What we are seeing from the latter is excusing each new low and accepting it as the "new norm." We are seeing a repeat of the formation of the Nazi party in the 1930s; it is obvious to anyone with a background in history.

I am seeing that liberals have a lot of wrong ideas about conservatives, thinking they are all fascists who want to control everyone and remove all freedoms. That is actually the opposite of what conservatives want. We want LESS government, less control by the feds. We want to be able to live our lives free of government interference, and being taxed to death.

We see the liberals as wanting more government, taxes and more control. Forcing liberal values on everyone, making everyone dependent on the government Nanny State.

Perhaps we are wrong also?

I don't use the words "all" nor do I talk about groups like "conservatives" and "liberals" as monolithic blocks that walk in lockstep. If you actually read my posts with some degree of care, you would know this. That is not to say that I haven't slipped here or there - absolutes are so ingrained as a habit that the habit is VERY hard to break. But I have mostly broken it.

I suggest you read Project 2025, if you think any of this is true.

And I reject the claim that conservatives are not looking to control people. It may be true of some conservatives, but most conservatives today are indeed looking to control people. Anything that does not align with how they think other people should be is a target for control. Are you gay? You shouldn't be allowed to marry. Are you trans? You shouldn't have access to medical care for that condition. Are you pregnant? No abortion for you (and now even contraception has become a target). Are you in school? Here are the books we don't want ANY parent to let their child read. Are you afraid for your lives? Who cares?! Guns rule! Do you want the freedom to practice your religion (or not religion?). Sorry bud, this is a Christian country!

From what I can see, whether liberal or conservative, the desire is to see a country that conforms to the values the individual finds important. So coming together to find common ground and compromise is the only way forward. But that way is blocked. Today, if you are a conservative and DARE to work across the aisle with a Democrat, you are primaried. Do you see much of that in the Democratic party? Why do you think McCarthy lost his speakership and Johnson's was threatened? Today, being a "RINO" means "not saying what Trump wants you to say." The concept of a DINO has been introduced, and has gotten almost zero traction. Swearing allegiance to Trump is a requirement for admission to the upper levels of the Republican party, or for getting a Trump endorsement. Not swearing allegiance to the country - swearing allegiance to Trump!

And today, most Republicans and conservatives are fighting to put a man in office who has been civilly convicted of groping a woman and then disparaging her for it. He has been caught on tape bragging about grabbing women by the genitals. He has suggested suspending the constitution over an election he demonstrably lost. He has suggested he would be justified in using the DOJ to enact retribution on his political foes. He has been criminally convicted of falsifying his business records to cover up payments to a porn star he had an affair with which would make them a form of campaign contribution. He has mocked people's disabilities numerous times. He trolls and bullies at every rally and his base cheers him for it. He lies almost continuously, about even stupid things, and his base defends his lies. He has ridiculed the military and called them losers, refusing to be seen with those who have been critically injured because it "wouldn't be a good look for him." And yes, I know he denies those things. So I have to weigh the claims of a decorated, straight-arrow military general (John Kelly) against the claims of a serial liar. Guess which one I am going to believe?

There was a day when a man like Trump could not even have made it out of the starting gate for a state representative seat - and he is the leading contender for the highest office in the land - thanks to all of the Republicans and conservatives supporting him and repeating his lies.

And there is not an ounce of shame anywhere to be seen. Just jubilation and jeering at "liberals" and "the left." Our country is indeed a shadow of what it once might have been - and it is not liberals and progressives that have brought it there.

Yeah, yeah... I know... just more TDS... it's all rather predictable. But maybe, somewhere, someone is reading and nodding their head. I keep holding on to that possibility.

[carpedm9587]

You are forgetting Covid hitting in 2020. If that had not happened the market would have continued to climb at an unprecedented rate. I gained more in the first few years under Trump than I did under 8 years of Obama.

No, Sparko. I'm not forgetting. If you bothered to look at the data, the period of "flat growth" I am referring to under Trump began on Jan 22, 2018 when the FT5000 peaked at 29,760. It then did not hit this level and stay above it until Jun 17, 2019, a period of 19 months. Covid started in late November of that year and was not considered a pandemic until the first quarter of 2020.

And I am being generous. If I were to strictly apply this, I would say it didn't rise above and stay above this level until late June 2020. But the dip that happened then was the dip caused by covid and the rise afterwards was the "fake surge" driven by massive government stimulus, so I have excluded it from the data and limited myself to the 19 month period of flat growth under Trump PRE-covid.

And that still does not change the fact that stock market annualized returns under the last three democratic administration exceeded stock market returns under the last three Republican administrations.

But that does not stop people from claiming they were "so much better off under Trump" and citing the stock market as part of their argument. They just ignore what the data ACTUALLY says and go with what they want to believe.

ETA: I choose the Wilshire 5000 because it has the most stocks in the index and is widely diversified. The NASDAQ is tech heavy. The DOW is a joke. The SP500 is better but not as many stocks. The NY is probably almost as good. Despite that, ALL of these indices show the same flat period - just slightly different in their length.

[carpedm9587]

I'm around military people all the time, including the aforementioned Lt. Col. and 2 Full Bird (retired) Colonels in my congregation -- they are vey much Trump supporters as they pay far more attention to what he does than what he says.

It's odd, CP. I too have connections in the military - though not as high as colonels. Most of them think of Trump as I do.

So let's think about this. Is this perhaps more about the fact that they are members of your congregation (and mine as people in my circle of friends) than it is about how the military view the administrations? Maybe? After all, would somebody NOT supporting Trump be likely to find themselves a member of your congregation?

[carpedm9587]

You don't seem to be alone with that thought.
Having read the thoughts of a US defence employee on this thread, and those of CP's big-birds, I wondered how general officers have commented on Trump's leadership.
This was the first response past my enquiry......................:-

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

America’s Top Generals: Donald Trump is “Dangerous” and “Unfit” to Be Commander-in-Chief

OCTOBER 9, 2023

As Donald Trump tries to rewrite his record on the world stage, here’s a reminder that our military’s top brass – including those who served under Trump – have condemned the disgraced former president’s reckless behavior on the world stage and slammed his dangerous foreign policy agenda.

Former Joint Chiefs Chairman General Mark Milley – who Trump recently suggested be executed – has called Trump a threat to democracy and the institution of the military.

The Atlantic: “Trump Floats the Idea of Executing Joint Chiefs Chairman Milley”

Milley: “As much as these comments are directed at me, it’s also directed at the institution of the military, and there’s 2.1 million of us in uniform. And the American people can take it to the bank that all of us, every single one of us, from private to general, were loyal to that constitution and will never turn our back on it no matter what.”

The Guardian: “Mark Milley: Retiring General Appears To Call Trump ‘Wannabe Dictator’”

CNN: “‘They’re Not Going To F**king Succeed’: Top Generals Feared Trump Would Attempt A Coup After Election, According To New Book”

CNN: “Two days after the January 6 attack on the US Capitol, President Donald Trump’s top military adviser, Joint Chiefs Chairman Gen. Mark Milley, single-handedly took secret action to limit Trump from potentially ordering a dangerous military strike or launching nuclear weapons, according to ‘Peril,’ a new book by legendary journalist Bob Woodward and veteran Washington Post reporter Robert Costa.”

Trump’s own former Defense Secretary James Mattis resigned during Trump’s tenure and slammed Trump as “dangerous,” “unfit,” and a threat to the Constitution.

New York Times: “Jim Mattis, Defense Secretary, Resigns In Rebuke Of Trump’s Worldview.”

The Atlantic: “James Mattis Denounces President Trump, Describes Him As A Threat To The Constitution”

Insider: “’Dangerous,’ ‘Unfit,’ And ‘Felony Stupid’: The Most Revealing Quotes From Jim Mattis On Trump’s Presidency In Bob Woodward’s Bombshell Book”

I am going to predict that the response to this list is going to be, "of course those leftist rags would say that!"

If I am right - what would be the genetic fallacy to the T.

[carpedm9587]

Given that Milley was secretly communicating with his friends the Chicoms to reassure them that he'll stop Trump, questions about treason will naturally arise.

Isn't this a bit of a misrepresentation? Didn't he actually communicate with the Chinese to assure them that the U.S. had no intention of initiating conflict with them? He received information that there was fear within the Chinese leadership about such an attack, and responded to that fear at a time when the only thing Trump was doing was trying to undermine the election that had just happened. His own staff reported that this was the only thing on Trump's mind from the day of the election until the day he slunk out of Washington. How is that "treasonous?" Do you think Trump was planning to attack and Miley went behind his back to short circuit the plan?

[carpedm9587]

Much like the Trump trial, we all know what the verdict will be. The prosecution completely slow walked even charging him.

I notice you left that ambiguous. Were you actually expecting Hunter to be convicted then?

[carpedm9587]

At this point, it appears Biden has enough trouble just controlling his own bowels.

What on earth is THIS in reference to?

[eider]

I am going to predict that the response to this list is going to be, "of course those leftist rags would say that!"

If I am right - what would be the genetic fallacy to the T.

Aren't they poor fools?
And it isn't just 'leftists' that perceive Trump to be a fascist and a danger to democracy, but so many people from all political, cultural and religious backgrounds.

Every time I see a MAGA cap I am reminded of how Hitler had promised to make Germany Great Again.

[JimL]

But- but Trump!

Very good MM, you got the point. Save democracy, Vote blue!!

[JimL]

Our constitution is set up in such a way that no one person could ever take over the country like Hitler did. The President just doesn't have that kind of power. Not to mention he would be unable to convince the military to support him in a coup. If Trump actually tried what the liberals (and apparently you) think he would, he would find himself in jail pretty quickly.

I just don't understand the paranoid liberals who think that Trump would become an actual dictator. He couldn't even get his wall built when he was in power last time. He would have to have the military, congress and the supreme court all in his pocket in order to do anything like being a dictator. And even if he did, he would end up with the entire USA rebelling against him. Americans would not put up with our freedoms being curtailed, even by someone like Trump.

As you can see with Biden, the President doesn't actually do that much or has that much power. The country is working fairly well with a zombie in charge right now.

Oops, Sparko you gave yourself away. "The country is working fairly well"

[Terraceth]

I am sounding paranoid to YOU, and perhaps to others who think as you do here. That stands to reason, since your immediate response is to defend Mr. Trump from pretty much ANY accusation.

That may or may not be true about Sparko. But speaking as someone who, while willing to defend Trump on some things, would readily attack on him various others, I do think you are sounding extremely paranoid.

[NorrinRadd]

What on earth is THIS in reference to?

First the event referenced at time-stamp 1:11

Most recent was this incident:

[Mountain Man]

Very good MM, you got the point. Save democracy, Vote blue!!

Yes! Democracy must be saved from the will of the people!

[Mountain Man]

First the event referenced at time-stamp 1:11

Most recent was this incident:

And this isn't anything new. In November 2021 at a COP26 summit social gathering, Joe let loose a fart that Duchess Camilla Parker described as "long and loud and impossible to ignore".

[rogue06]

I am going to predict that the response to this list is going to be, "of course those leftist rags would say that!"

If I am right - what would be the genetic fallacy to the T.

You should have a talk with eider about genetic fallacies. He has a habit of simply dismissing news stories as being "foxy" (from Fox News), even if they come from liberal outlets, if they say something he doesn't like.