Tongues Speakers in AZ Senate

[Cow Poke]

....
I didn’t see a full view. Maybe there was one. Maybe there were 20.

WOW, maybe TWENTY!!!! (And no real basis to believe that other than wishful thinking)

Had they notified the press, they would have had FAR greater coverage, like THESE phonies....

kente 3.png

[whag]

WOW, maybe TWENTY!!!! (And no real basis to believe that other than wishful thinking)

Calm down and pay attention. If there was NO ONE there, the presence of loud charismatics doing charismatic things in the AZ is worth filming. If Muslims did their Allah Akbar thing in the same setting—at the same volume with the same
passion—you’d think it important to note, and so would I.

If you wouldn’t, I still would. That’s all I did here and it’s got
your panties in a twist defending, in your words, “nutty” people.

Nuttiness is always newsworthy, especially when it’s lawmakers.

Had they notified the press, they would have had FAR greater coverage, like THESE phonies....

kente 3.png

You already posted those pics. You okay there?

I asked you where I mocked them. Also, why would mocking fake glossolaliasts be any more inappropriate than mocking kneelers?

[whag]

I don't see why you would object to children being taught the basic moral commands of God.

1. Because there’s no rationale to teach scripture to students in public school.
2. Because some of the commandments are archaic and aren’t relevant to your life—and by extension theirs.

I bolded the ones you need to rationalize. How would you tie those to public school education? I expect an answer for each or please just leave this thread because it’s boring to have an unsubstantive discussion. Bored with that.

The Ten Commandments


20 And God spoke all these words:

² “I am the Lord your God, who brought you outof Egypt, out of the land of slavery.

³ “You shall have no other gods before^[a] me.

⁴ “You shall not make for yourself an image in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. ⁵ You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me, ⁶ but showing love to a thousandgenerations of those who love me and keep my commandments.

⁷ “You shall not misuse the name of the Lord your God, for the Lord will not hold anyone guiltless who misuses his name.

⁸ “Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy. ⁹ Six days you shall labor and do all your work, ¹⁰ but the seventh day is a sabbath to the Lord your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your male or female servant, nor your animals, nor any foreigner residing in your towns. ¹¹ For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth,the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.

¹² “Honor your father and your mother, so that you may live long in the land the Lord your God is giving you.

¹³ “You shall not murder.

¹⁴ “You shall not commit adultery.

¹⁵ “You shall not steal.

¹⁶ “You shall not give false testimony against your neighbor.

¹⁷ “You shall not covet your neighbor’s house. You shall not covet your neighbor’s wife, or his male or female servant, his ox or donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbor.”

The rest your parents are responsible to teach you. The Decalogue isn’t meant to be a parent substitute. Do you know how much money public school teachers make? Their job is hard enough without having to figure out how to incorporate teaching scripture to their students. The Decalogue requires contextualization. It’s a complex piece of historical literature, not an episode of Sesame Street.

As I said, your objections so far are not the least convincing.

That must be why you’ve deliberately ignored the commands I’ve addressed. It’s reasonable that you’d engage the substance of the commands I’ve referenced, yes? If not, why not?

[Sparko]

Calm down and pay attention. If there was NO ONE there, the presence of loud charismatics doing charismatic things in the AZ is worth filming. If Muslims did their Allah Akbar thing in the same setting—at the same volume with the same
passion—you’d think it important to note, and so would I.

If you wouldn’t, I still would. That’s all I did here and it’s got
your panties in a twist defending, in your words, “nutty” people.

Nuttiness is always newsworthy, especially when it’s lawmakers.



You already posted those pics. You okay there?

I asked you where I mocked them. Also, why would mocking fake glossolaliasts be any more inappropriate than mocking kneelers?

Considering the only videos we have are clandestine personal videos people posted from their phones and all of the press seems negative and mocking of them, I seriously doubt this was staged as some sort of publicity stunt.

Also I didn't hear any "tongues" - just several people all praying out loud and talking over each other.

[Mountain Man]

I bolded the ones you need to rationalize.

I don't need to rationalize anything, and you still haven't shown how exposing people to basic Biblical morality in the courtroom or the classroom will have any negative impact on society, or, getting back to the topic of this thread, why you so strongly object to a group of politicians praying in public.

[whag]

I don't need to rationalize anything,

The minimum requirement is exactly that. I’ve given you my rationale for objecting to the display. You haven’t given the counterpoint on what I specifically referenced. How can I be clearer than pointing you to the actual commands?

Please help me understand how I engage you in an actual discussion where we BOTH provide our rationales. What do you need, and I’ll provide it.

and you still haven't shown how exposing people to basic Biblical morality in the courtroom or the classroom will have any negative impact on society,

Kanoworms: "If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them."

I’m giving you an out by saying let’s not even complicate schooling by teaching scripture. Interestingly, I have proposed Daniel Dennett’s view that, if we did, we should go whole hog. You ignored that proposal. Do you know what that’s in reference to? Please answer that.

or, getting back to the topic of this thread, why you so strongly object to a group of politicians praying in public.

The issue being discussed is in the title and ensuing discussion of standard prayer meeting etiquette. Never did I once say that a typical prayer meeting should be banned publically. If I did, please show me where and I’ll gladly apologize for making such a suggestion. Then we could resume your counterpoint to my basic argument. My basic argument: let’s not complicate schooling by burdening teachers with contextualizing religious scripture, which may or may not resonate with them. That’s my core argument, so there’s no confusion.

[Mountain Man]

The minimum requirement is exactly that. I’ve given you my rationale for objecting to the display. You haven’t given the counterpoint on what I specifically referenced. How can I be clearer than pointing you to the actual commands?

Please help me understand how I engage you in an actual discussion where we BOTH provide our rationales. What do you need, and I’ll provide it.



Kanoworms: "If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them."

I’m giving you an out by saying let’s not even complicate schooling by teaching scripture. Interestingly, I have proposed Daniel Dennett’s view that, if we did, we should go whole hog. You ignored that proposal. Do you know what that’s in reference to? Please answer that.



The issue being discussed is in the title and ensuing discussion of standard prayer meeting etiquette. Never did I once say that a typical prayer meeting should be banned publically. If I did, please show me where and I’ll gladly apologize for making such a suggestion. Then we could resume your counterpoint to my basic argument. My basic argument: let’s not complicate schooling by burdening teachers with contextualizing religious scripture, which may or may not resonate with them. That’s my core argument, so there’s no confusion.

The basic moral lesson in the verse you quoted is, of course, that homosexual behavior is a sin. That's simple enough that even a child can understand. How it should be dealt with by the modern church operating under the New Covenant is a completely different discussion.

So it comes down to this: you have not presented one single valid reason why the Ten Commandments should not be posted in the courtroom or the classroom (though I'm not entirely sure how classrooms got added to this considering this tangent started with a quote from Jerry Falwell about the Ten Commandments in the courtroom), or why politicians should not pray in public (and yes, that is the thrust of this thread when you accused them of staging a "spectacle"; you seem to be a fan of the tired old trope that Christians should be seen and not heard).

[Cow Poke]

Calm down and pay attention.

Dude, I'm so calm I almost fell asleep.

If there was NO ONE there,

OK, pay attention, H_A --- nobody said NO ONE was there.

the presence of loud charismatics doing charismatic things in the AZ is worth filming.

A) meh - somebody needs to get a life.
2) "in the AZ"?

If Muslims did their Allah Akbar thing in the same setting—at the same volume with the same
passion—you’d think it important to note, and so would I.

Yeah, because Christians praying loudly is ALWAYS associated with going to war or doing physical violence.

Now, before some nutcase freaks out and dishonestly accuses me of being.... well, here...

While Allah Akbar simply means "God is Great" or "God is Greater", it is frequently used as part of the "struggle", either spiritual or physical, including incidents of terrorism.
Bad example.

While people could easily dismiss the Christians as nutters, they wouldn't be expecting them to brandish AK-47s.

If you wouldn’t, I still would. That’s all I did here and it’s got
your panties in a twist defending, in your words, “nutty” people.

No, my dear misguided friend --- As I have stated numerous times, you AMUSE me.
You do not trigger me, I wear boxers, not panties, and I'm about as chill as a clear mountain stream.

If anybody got their panties in a bunch, it's you with your preoccupation with some Christians minding their own business and praying.

Nuttiness is always newsworthy, especially when it’s lawmakers.

Psshaaaaaawwwwww... around Tweb - Nuttiness is the NORM!

You already posted those pics.

I did.

You okay there?

Couldn't be much okayer.

I asked you where I mocked them. Also, why would mocking fake glossolaliasts be any more inappropriate than mocking kneelers?

So, make up your mind - you DID mock them and it's "appropriate", or you did NOT mock them and....

[Cow Poke]

Considering the only videos we have are clandestine personal videos people posted from their phones and all of the press seems negative and mocking of them, I seriously doubt this was staged as some sort of publicity stunt.

Honest question - is there more than ONE video of this?

[whag]

The basic moral lesson in the verse you quoted is, of course, that homosexual behavior is a sin. That's simple enough that even a child can understand. How it should be dealt with by the modern church operating under the New Covenant is a completely different discussion.

You missed my point. I bolded “basic Biblical morality” then said it’s a can of worms by quoting that verse. Teachers cannot be burdened with teaching ancient scripture. That requires context. Context is part of learning. Are you advocating a new pedagogy where children are taught scripture in public school?

So it comes down to this: you have not presented one single valid reason why the Ten Commandments should not be posted in the courtroom or the classroom

Yes, I did by courteously addressing specific commands that would make no sense to be posted in a legal institution. I did the same for public schools. You handwaved.

(though I'm not entirely sure how classrooms got added to this considering this tangent started with a quote from Jerry Falwell about the Ten Commandments in the courtroom), or why politicians should not pray in public

Kern proposed a bill to introduce the Decalogue in public schooling. If this topic doesn’t interest you, just say so.

(and yes, that is the thrust of this thread when you accused them of staging a "spectacle"; you seem to be fan of the tired old trope that Christians should be seen and not heard).

For the sake of argument, it’s just a prayer meeting of TBN types. I wouldn’t know they existed except for their loud chatter. All things being equal, I’d say the same about a Krishna tambourine troupe or Muslims shouting Allah Akbar. Does that make sense? This is, to use Cow Poke ’s words, “different” behavior than what we’ve come to expect from civic leaders. That’s why I brought it up.

Why is the infiltration of Judaizers in the early church dealt with so harshly but somehow pointing out fake glossolaliasts in AZ senate is bigoted? Can you explain that to me like I’m 5?

[Cow Poke]

So, let's look at a couple outlandish misrepresentations from a certain poster here about the article he posted, but apparently did not read....

A video of the Monday gathering,

Singular - a video.

filmed by an anonymous attendee and verified by The Arizona Republic,

Always that "unnamed source".

showed a small group of roughly a half-dozen attendees

Yup - very small prayer meeting.

kneeling over the state seal

Those HOOLIGANS!!!!

in an empty chamber

Wait, WHAT? An EMPTY CHAMBER?!?!?! Maybe they thought there were spectators?

and gesticulating wildly.

That's one of my favorite parts!!!

“Let it be so, Father God,” Kern says in the video. “Lord, right now, we ask thee to release the presence of the lord in the Senate chamber.”

Praying to Father God! the HORRORS!!!! And asking for the presence of the LORD!!!!

The display quickly sparked the ire of a group called Secular Arizona,

Well, there ya have it -- The Secular Arizonans got their panties in a wad!!!

Then this bullpucky....

which advocates for the separation of church and state—a key constitutional tenet that its executive director, Jeanne Casteen, alleged that Kern was likely in violation of.

So my dear friend who posted this malarkey got a couple things wrong ---
A) I was NOT the one who injected "the constitution" into this dipwad thread - the Secular Arizonans did.
2) It's an outright LIE that separation of church and state has anything whatsoever to do with the Constitution.

So, this whole thing is just downright piddledangle.

[whag]

Dude, I'm so calm I almost fell asleep.



OK, pay attention, H_A --- nobody said NO ONE was there.

You misunderstood me. I was saying it’d be noteworthy even IF no one was there.

You’re right. You do seem sleepy.

A) meh - somebody needs to get a life.
2) "in the AZ"?

AZ senate

Yeah, because Christians praying loudly is ALWAYS associated with going to war or doing physical violence.

Surely you’re not saying Christians never waged war? We can surmise there was shouted prayer to rally the troops.

While Allah Akbar simply means "God is Great" or "God is Greater", it is frequently used as part of the "struggle", either spiritual or physical, including incidents of terrorism.
Bad example.

IMG_1732.jpeg
God is with us. “Immanuel.” Unfortunately, these phrases, while well meaning, can be tied to great evil.

Martin Luther’s rabid antisemitism surely didn’t help.

While people could easily dismiss the Christians as nutters, they wouldn't be expecting them to brandish AK-47s.





No, my dear misguided friend --- As I have stated numerous times, you AMUSE me.
You do not trigger me, I wear boxers, not panties, and I'm about as chill as a clear mountain stream.

If anybody got their panties in a bunch, it's you with your preoccupation with some Christians minding their own business and praying.



Psshaaaaaawwwwww... around Tweb - Nuttiness is the NORM!



I did.



Couldn't be much okayer.



So, make up your mind - you DID mock them and it's "appropriate", or you did NOT mock them and....

You need an energy drink. I’m waiting for the reference where I mocked them.

[Cow Poke]

You need an energy drink.

I've had my coffee since then.

I’m waiting for the reference where I mocked them.

By starting this silly thread based on an article you appear not to have actually read, or read with extreme bias.

But it's OK, whag - you are, by far, one of my favorite loony leftists!

[Cow Poke]

...Surely you’re not saying Christians never waged war?

Correct.

We can surmise there was shouted prayer to rally the troops.

I think you'd do best with a lot less surmizin' and a whole lot more factin'.

[whag]

So, let's look at a couple outlandish misrepresentations from a certain poster here about the article he posted, but apparently did not read....

A video of the Monday gathering,

Singular - a video.

filmed by an anonymous attendee and verified by The Arizona Republic,

Always that "unnamed source".

showed a small group of roughly a half-dozen attendees

Yup - very small prayer meeting.

kneeling over the state seal

Those HOOLIGANS!!!!

in an empty chamber

Wait, WHAT? An EMPTY CHAMBER?!?!?! Maybe they thought there were spectators?

and gesticulating wildly.

That's one of my favorite parts!!!

“Let it be so, Father God,” Kern says in the video. “Lord, right now, we ask thee to release the presence of the lord in the Senate chamber.”

Praying to Father God! the HORRORS!!!! And asking for the presence of the LORD!!!!

The display quickly sparked the ire of a group called Secular Arizona,

Well, there ya have it -- The Secular Arizonans got their panties in a wad!!!

Then this bullpucky....

which advocates for the separation of church and state—a key constitutional tenet that its executive director, Jeanne Casteen, alleged that Kern was likely in violation of.

So my dear friend who posted this malarkey got a couple things wrong ---
A) I was NOT the one who injected "the constitution" into this dipwad thread - the Secular Arizonans did.
2) It's an outright LIE that separation of church and state has anything whatsoever to do with the Constitution.

So, this whole thing is just downright piddledangle.

A) I apologize for quoting your reference to their “constitutional right.” I must have imagined that.
2.) I love that you said that because now you have to explain how that’s relevant to my OP.

Is your objection to the video or my observation that TBN types conduct “private” prayer meetings peppered with bad glossolalia in AZ senate chambers? I’d gladly reboot this discussion if you want to continue discussion on why conducting a private prayer meeting in AZ senate chambers is interesting. All I said was that there’s spectacle in that. If not, it would have been conducted orderly or maybe off in a meeting room.