Tongues Speakers in AZ Senate

[Mountain Man]

That was precisely the motivation of cdesignpropontsists. You can say Genesis 1-6 was handed down by God himself, but that’s no rationale to teach it in public school.

Okay, back to the two commandments in question that you refused to address. Abstaining from work on the Sabbath and honoring your parents are situational and have zero to do with law enforcement. Courts are law upholding institutions.

Yes. And? Again, what's the worst that could happen? That someone in the courtroom will read the commandments, take them to heart, and become a better person? Your objections so far have not been particularly convincing.

[Cow Poke]

That’s not what I asked you. I asked if disruptive “constitutional” behavior is permitted at a prayer meeting.

A) whoever is presiding over the prayer meeting gets to determine that
2) if it's not my prayer meeting, it's really none of my concern

You made this about the constitution,

Meh - I made it NOT about the Constitution in that there is no "separation of church and state" in the Constitution as somebody else wrongly suggested.

where I merely said a group of attention-seeking charismatics made some noise on the AZ senate floor.

It is your opinion that they were attention-seeking. I don't see it that way at all.

My mom lives in AZ, so this interests me. I never once said it was unconstitutional or that it should be outlawed. This interests me like woke spectacle interests you. Do I fear it? No. Do you fear woke spectacle? Probably not. So why are we even arguing about this? We seem to be in violent agreement on this.

It seemed to bother you enough that you started a thread on it some people minding their own business having a totally legal prayer meeting.

If you disagree, please clarify. I’m up for a reboot.

[whag]

A) whoever is presiding over the prayer meeting gets to determine that
2) if it's not my prayer meeting, it's really none of my concern



Meh - I made it NOT about the Constitution in that there is no "separation of church and state" in the Constitution as somebody else wrongly suggested.



It is your opinion that they were attention-seeking. I don't see it that way at all.



It seemed to bother you enough that you started a thread on it some people minding their own business having a totally legal prayer meeting.

They were in full view of their colleagues and shouting to be heard. You know that and the verses that condemn that behavior.

Your defense of supplicants of this type seems desperate. I merely gave these people a mention, which seemingly has the appearance of fakery, and you brought the state into it. I never made this a church and state issue. You did:

They have a Constitutional right to pray, and you have every right to mock them for doing so.

[Cow Poke]

They were in full view of their colleagues and shouting to be heard.

So, they were not ashamed of the Gospel of Christ.

You know that and the verses that condemn that behavior.

No, help me out here, friend. I don't know of any verse that keeps them from having a legal prayer meeting.

Your defense of supplicants of this type seems desperate.

Meh, I'm just pickin' on you for being so overly judgmental.

As for your accusation of me "bringing the state into it" - have you actually watched the video you posted where the talking head sneers at the fact that they "prayed over the state seal"?

[whag]

In my 35 years as a Christian I have only personally heard tongues spoken three or four times. And they were more intelligible than Biden...

How would you know it was intelligible if you aren’t fluent in those languages?

[whag]

So, they were not ashamed of the Gospel of Christ.

You mean that’s the behavior I have to engage in to demonstrate I’m not ashamed of Christ? Alistair McGrath is also not ashamed of the gospel but notice he doesn’t shout fake tongues or pray out loud during another’s prayer.

No, help me out here, friend. I don't know of any verse that keeps them from having a legal prayer meeting.

You know about the narcissistic supplicant verses. Don’t play stupid.

Meh, I'm just pickin' on you for being so overly judgmental.

As for your accusation of me "bringing the state into it" - have you actually watched the video you posted where the talking head sneers at the fact that they "prayed over the state seal"?

Same to you, just bustin chops. I’m sorry if the commentator is what set you off. I should have just posted the raw video.

So have you changed your mind on whether they’re nutty or not? We’re in violent agreement: they’re nutty but have the constitutional right to do this thing. Let’s move on, because we’re repeating and I’m bored. It’s enough that you conceded this isn’t ideal behavior.

[Cow Poke]

You mean that’s the behavior I have to engage in to demonstrate I’m not ashamed of Christ?

You seem miffed, even more than usual, whag -- everything OK?

Your "logic" here stinks.... that somebody is not ashamed of praying in public does not obligate anybody else to do likewise.

Alistair McGrath is also not ashamed of the gospel but notice he doesn’t shout fake tongues or pray out loud during another’s prayer.

Yeah, and I really don't care at all.

You know about the narcissistic supplicant verses. Don’t play stupid.

Well, see, here's the problem....

You ASSUME they're being narcissistic when that's not actually evident.

Same to you, just bustin chops. I’m sorry if the commentator is what set you off. I should have just posted the raw video.

Laughing --- it was AMUSING, whag --- downright silly. Nothing there at all to get "set off" about. She was every bit the goofus that you claim the prayer group was.

So have you changed your mind on whether they’re nutty or not?

They were certainly "different".

We’re in violent agreement: they’re nutty but have the constitutional right to do this thing. Let’s move on, because we’re repeating and I’m bored. It’s enough that you conceded this isn’t ideal behavior.

You literally had me laughing out loud and made me wake Jake.

[One Bad Pig]

What?

Source: John 8:44

You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it.

© Copyright Original Source

You're doing a bang-up job doing his work for him; he's got you so snookered you think you're working as an independent.

[whag]

Source: John 8:44

You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it.

© Copyright Original Source

You're doing a bang-up job doing his work for him; he's got you so snookered you think you're working as an independent.

The Pharisees were murderously angry that Jesus was exposing their pretense of righteousness and corruption. He said they called attention to themselves with their attention-seeking supplication. I linked to an event that involved attention-seeking supplicants shouting bad glossolalia in a state building.

Benny Hinn leveled the same “Satan is your father” accusation at Hanegraaff when he was in his heresy-hunting prime.

[Cow Poke]

The Pharisees were murderously angry that Jesus was exposing their pretense of righteousness and corruption.

Well, that was part of it.

He said they called attention to themselves with their attention-seeking supplication. I linked to an event that involved attention-seeking supplicants shouting bad glossolalia in a state building.

"Attention-seeking supplicants"? The only way we know of this is because somebody did a video of it and shared it.

Again, when somebody is actually "attention-seeking", it looks a whole lot more like this --- actually posing for the media and dressed for the occasion...

kente 3.png

[whag]

Well, that was part of it.



"Attention-seeking supplicants"? The only way we know of this is because somebody did a video of it and shared it.

Again, when somebody is actually "attention-seeking", it looks a whole lot more like this --- actually posing for the media and dressed for the occasion...

kente 3.png

Are you really saying they didn’t think they’d be seen? I wasn’t aware there was no one in the chambers besides the photographer.

i never said they filmed themselves, only that they had to anticipate their being filmed for their nutty and different behavior.

[Cow Poke]

Are you really saying they didn’t think they’d be seen?

You're doing it again, whag --- there's a whole lot of difference between...
A) didn't think they'd be seen, and
2) "attention-seeking supplicants".

This is the kind of crap we expect from H_A --- the "well, if it wasn't X, it HAD to be Y --- nothing in between!"

I wasn’t aware there was no one in the chambers besides the photographer.

It appeared to be pretty empty, no?

i never said they filmed themselves,

Nor did I say you said that.

only that they had to anticipate their being filmed for their nutty and different behavior.

You know this, how, exactly?

[whag]

Again, what's the worst that could happen? That someone in the courtroom will read the commandments, take them to heart, and become a better person? Your objections so far have not been particularly convincing.

I thought Kern wanted them posted and read in public schools. Do you really believe kids care about resting on the 7th day of the week? Do you think any adult who processes wood on the sabbath will stop doing that and become a better person? Do you think a homicidal maniac will stop his internal cacophony of murderous thoughts? Kids don’t relate to coveting thy neighbors wife. What if a kid hears the “honor thy parents” commandment and she’s being abused at home?

What are you afraid will happen if they aren’t posted and read in courts and public schools?

[whag]

You're doing it again, whag --- there's a whole lot of difference between...
A) didn't think they'd be seen, and
2) "attention-seeking supplicants".

I’ll grant you for the sake of argument they were at 50%. Let’s say they were 50% “different” from their quieter colleagues. The gall of tongues fakery in a state senate’s chambers is still worth noting, which is all I ever did. You say this is mockery—please show me where. Even if I did mock glossolalia fakery, which I did not, it’d be justified, I think. I think Jesus would take that seriously. Paul seemed stringent about it, as well.

This is the kind of crap we expect from H_A --- the "well, if it wasn't X, it HAD to be Y --- nothing in between!"

Right, like you never generalized ever here. They wanted to be noticed by their many words, volume, and posturing.

It appeared to be pretty empty, no?

I didn’t see a full view. Maybe there was one. Maybe there were 20.

You know this, how, exactly?

Because they are presumably educated adults who know that phones come out during “different” behavior. Let’s be nice and just say it was different. “Nutty” was your pejorative, not mine.

[Mountain Man]

I thought Kern wanted them posted and read in public schools. Do you really believe kids care about resting on the 7th day of the week? Do you think any adult who processes wood on the sabbath will stop doing that and become a better person? Do you think a homicidal maniac will stop his internal cacophony of murderous thoughts? Kids don’t relate to coveting thy neighbors wife. What if a kid hears the “honor thy parents” commandment and she’s being abused at home?

What are you afraid will happen if they aren’t posted and read in courts and public schools?

I don't see why you would object to children being taught the basic moral commands of God.

As I said, your objections so far are not the least convincing.