US Army Now Begging Soldiers Who Refused Covid Vaccines To Come Back

[Ronson]

Future protection against a virus after infection or inoculation depends on the body's response: with COVID, the immune system learns to recognize the spike protein and white blood cells retain a "memory" of the virus. But if a person's immunological response isn't strong enough, that "memory" isn't established and the infected/inoculated person doesn't get the benefit of future protection.

Though I think there's a discrepancy here: neither the Pfizer nor moderna vaccines were available in mid-2020 under EUA — both, by memory, were available in late November/early December to specific groups and were made generally available in April/May 2021. I'd also ask, for this case, whether you received both vaccine "doses", as a single vaccine dose for the first inoculation was much less effective than the full schedule (~30% efficacy vs. ~90% for Pfizer, if I remember right).

You are correct. First Pfizer was 8 July 2021, second jab was 29 July 2021. That being the case, I need to push everything forward by one year. So, my last covid case would be January 2022.

[rogue06]

The cited NYTimes article is talking about COVID deaths being counted in mid-2023, when COVID deaths were (relatively) very low, not during the pandemic, where we likely undercounted COVID deaths:

Source: COVID-19 Deaths in the US Continue to Be Undercounted, Research Shows, Despite Claims of ‘Overcounts’. ANDREW STOKES DIELLE LUNDBERG ELIZABETH WRIGLEY-FIELD YEA-HUNG CHEN. BU School of Public Health. 2023.01.25

In a newly released study that has not yet been peer-reviewed, our team found that during the first two years of the pandemic – from March 2020 to February 2022 – there were between 996,869 and 1,278,540 excess deaths in the U.S. Among these, 866,187 were recognized as COVID-19 on death certificates. This means that there were between 130,682 and 412,353 more excess deaths than COVID-19 deaths. The gap between excess deaths and COVID-19 deaths was large in both the first and second years of the pandemic. This suggests that COVID-19 deaths were undercounted even after the pandemic’s chaotic early months.

Major studies have also concluded that excess deaths exceeded COVID-19 deaths at the national level during the first two years of the pandemic. And preliminary analyses by our team have found that the gap between excess deaths and COVID-19 deaths has persisted into the third year of the pandemic. This suggests that COVID-19 deaths are still being undercounted.

Making sense of the discrepancy

Explaining the discrepancy between excess deaths and reported COVID-19 deaths is a more challenging task. But several threads of evidence support the idea that the difference largely reflects uncounted COVID-19 deaths.

In a recent study, we found that excess deaths peaked immediately before spikes in reported COVID-19 deaths. This was the case even for excess deaths associated with causes like Alzheimer’s disease that are unlikely to rapidly change due to patients avoiding hospitals or other changes in behavior during the pandemic.

This finding aligns with the observation that COVID-19 deaths may go unrecognized – and be misclassified to other causes of death – at the beginning of COVID-19 surges. At this time, COVID-19 testing may be less frequent in the community, among medical providers and among death investigators. If excess deaths were not caused by COVID-19, they would instead either remain relatively constant during COVID-19 surges or they would peak afterwards when hospitals were overcrowded and deaths may have resulted from health care interruptions.

Excess deaths related to external causes of death such as drug overdose also increased during the pandemic. However, a preliminary study found that the scale of this increase was small relative to the overall increase in excess deaths. So deaths from external factors alone cannot explain the gap between excess and COVID-19 deaths.

© Copyright Original Source

-Sam

Several states (including some with the highest mortality rates) don't even require an autopsy to confirm if they actually had Covid. Combine that with monetarily incentivizing Covid diagnoses (Uncle Sam would provide more money) and it is incredulous to believe that there was an undercount when other Western countries were experiencing far lower rates.

Of course other countries weren't promoting social justice trumps social distancing either.

More seriously, other countries didn't seem to list people who died of something else but who tested positive for Covid as dying from Covid. So someone decapitated in an auto accident but who had Covid wouldn't be listed as a Covid-related fatality anywhere else but here.

[Mountain Man]

I'm not going to argue COVID statistics with people dedicated to erasing a global pandemic. 1.35 million excess deaths in USA since February 2020 and libraries of medical data regarding the pandemic and the virus aren't sufficient to deter the most dedicated denialists from finding the most cynical fabulists. At this stage, it's really an exercise in seeing which people can be remotely trusted to handle factual information.

-Sam

Stating the fact that China flu deaths were significantly over-counted, and that the danger to the average person was low, is not about "erasing a global pandemic" (nice straw man, that). The pandemic still happened even if it wasn't nearly as deadly and dangerous to the average person as the profiteering fearmongers like Fauci the Fraud wished us to believe.

[Starlight]

More seriously, other countries didn't seem to list people who died of something else but who tested positive for Covid as dying from Covid. So someone decapitated in an auto accident but who had Covid wouldn't be listed as a Covid-related fatality anywhere else but here.

Different countries have always had different systems for what goes on death certificates. As a result, researchers looking at multi-country comparisons for Covid tend to look at excess mortality instead, which doesn't rely on a diagnosis.

Excess mortality analysis shows the US was substantially undercounting its Covid deaths.

[Mountain Man]

In 2.5 years. A dose every 6 months on average.

Right, a vaccine so "effective" you need one every six months!

[rogue06]

Right, a vaccine so "effective" you need one every six months!

That's no so different than annual flu shots.

[Sam]

You are correct. First Pfizer was 8 July 2021, second jab was 29 July 2021. That being the case, I need to push everything forward by one year. So, my last covid case would be January 2022.

That makes a lot more sense; July 2021 was OG/Delta vaccination and by January 2022, Omicron was the dominant strain. Protection from reinfection via previous infection, by memory, was around 18 months for OG/Delta/Omicron so it's likely that a 2020 infection wasn't going to help you much in 2022 regardless. But Omicron was notable because it was the Great Escape variant -- the first one to join a set of mutations together to really get ahead of human immune response. So while the 2021 vaccines worked great against OG/Delta strains (90% - 95% efficacy), they had considerably less efficacy against Omicron (61%), especially with only the first (two-dose) vaccination and without the booster (3-dose).

-Sam

[Mountain Man]

That's no so different than annual flu shots.

You really don't need those, either.

[Starlight]

You really don't need those, either.

Why bother with any healthcare at all?

[Diogenes]

Why bother with any healthcare at all?

It's always nice to see a Young Turk support the pharmaceutical industrialist complex while burning straw.

[Cow Poke]

...Mobile morgues were ordered in a number of areas and sent from one hospital to the next because they weren't needed (I can't find the stories right now, but I know at least one forum member -- Cow Poke, maybe? -- has a daughter in the medical system who says that trucks were ordered by panicky politicians and not by the hospitals....

At that time my daughter was working in the Hospice field (had been for the prior 10 years), and was very much trying to keep informed on the ever-changing landscape of the COVID saga. While the above is true, my main point, relative to my daughter, has always been the extreme pressure to make deaths "Covid Deaths" even when they were not. It didn't take long to figure out which doctors NOT to call when reporting a death, because some of them would absolutely insist it was a "Covid Death" even if there were no indications other than it happened during that time frame.

Then there was the whole confusion over "dying because of Covid" as opposed to "dying with Covid". The sky-is-falling alarmists seemed to want every death possible to support their scare campaigns.

[JimL]

Why bother with any healthcare at all?

[JimL]

Got to love the way the new right wing crazies are all in denial of the data, the facts, and are all anti-government conspiracy theorist. How'd that happen to ya'll.

[Ronson]

That makes a lot more sense; July 2021 was OG/Delta vaccination and by January 2022, Omicron was the dominant strain. Protection from reinfection via previous infection, by memory, was around 18 months for OG/Delta/Omicron so it's likely that a 2020 infection wasn't going to help you much in 2022 regardless. But Omicron was notable because it was the Great Escape variant -- the first one to join a set of mutations together to really get ahead of human immune response. So while the 2021 vaccines worked great against OG/Delta strains (90% - 95% efficacy), they had considerably less efficacy against Omicron (61%), especially with only the first (two-dose) vaccination and without the booster (3-dose).

The first case was more the classic covid; loss of taste and smell for <12 hours, low-grade fever for a week. The second one was less intense, much more like a cold with an intermittent fever. I wouldn't have thought it was covid except my household caught it and tested positive (I wasn't tested that second time). I seem to recall someone saying we had the milder Omicron, but I don't believe my family was tested for such a specific.

[Sam]

The first case was more the classic covid; loss of taste and smell for <12 hours, low-grade fever for a week. The second one was less intense, much more like a cold with an intermittent fever. I wouldn't have thought it was covid except my household caught it and tested positive (I wasn't tested that second time). I seem to recall someone saying we had the milder Omicron, but I don't believe my family was tested for such a specific.

Good news is that current variants of concern are all sub-lineages of Omicron so the current crop of vaccines still seem to work fairly well. Bad news is that a January 2022 infection won't be doing much good in terms of protection. A good time to get boosted, as repeated infection significantly increases risk of cardiovascular, neurological, pulmonary, and immunological complications. COVID is a multi-organ disease and we're still learning the extent of the havoc it can wreak on a person's system, including cognitive aging and deleterious genetic changes to immune cells.

And folks at risk of infection (i.e., just about everyone during winter months) should be masking in public places, as protection against COVID and other airborne diseases that travel in waves (e.g., influenza, RSV).

-Sam