The Ray Epps Thread

[shunyadragon]

Shunny quite often posts sources that undermine his own position

What source underlies my position? Simply my position is there is absolutely no evidence that Epps was an FBI informant. He was one of thousands that broke laws and they were not arrested nor charged. Any one or more could have been a FBI informant.

[shunyadragon]

I don't think that there's much if anything showing that he's F.B.I., but the very different treatment accorded him would naturally raise questions.

Along with hundreds of others who did not enter the Capital, commit assaults, or damage property and were not arrested or charged. I guess they all should be suspect and raise questions.

[shunyadragon]

He's like "Don't look over there look over here!" whataboutisms. Problem is, he's just not smart enough to make it less obvious that's what he's doing.

Is third person insults all you are capable of? Can you provide any evidence that Epps was an FBI informant?

[Stoic]

What makes you think the point of the thread is to convince you of anything?

What makes you think I think that?

I can't speak for Diogenes, but I don't see that implied anywhere in the OP.

Yeah, me neither.

[seanD]

Is third person insults all you are capable of? Can you provide any evidence that Epps was an FBI informant?

Other than what has already been discussed here ad nauseam, there is no more evidence save a direct admission from either Epps or (assuming that he does) whatever organization he works for or represents. Hopefully he'll be subpoenaed and have to testify under oath.

[Diogenes]

Along with hundreds if not thousands of others that did in fact commit offences, but did not enter the Capital, assault others or damage property and have yet to be arrested or charged. Any one or more could be an FBI informant based on this logic.

Are hundreds if not thousands on video at the barricade right before the breach? Are any of the on video saying people should go into the Capitol the night prior? Were any of them scrubbed from the FBI's own wanted list?

The FBI literally had the #2 person in the OathKeepers as an informant and allowed the OathKeepers to act such that they have been found guilty of seditious conspiracy.

[Diogenes]

It does appear that Epps committed an offense by moving into the area past the original barriers. But as was pointed out, most of the people who did that were not arrested. One person who was arrested for that was Raechel Genco, but it appears that she was treated particularly harshly, rather than Epps being treated particularly leniently. Her connection to her boyfriend Ryan Samsel may have had something to do with that.

All three were at the barricade breach.

Aside from that, Epps is on video from the night before urging people to enter the Capitol, but that was not illegal.

Epps also directed people to the Capitol on 1/6.

He was present when the barricades were breached, but that was not illegal.

That location was restricted area, so yes it was illegal.

He spoke to Samsel just before Samsel started the breach of the barricades, but Epps says he was trying to calm Samsel down, and Samsel said the same thing, while also claiming that he didn't know the guy who was trying to calm him down.

This Samsel?

Ryan Samsel told The Gateway Pundit that he was beaten by the guards repeatedly, tied to a chair for 12 hours until he developed blood clots. Ryan suffered a broken face and a ruptured kidney. The guards later broke the right side of his face. Now he has precancerous growths on his chest that are spreading and the US government will not allow him medical treatment.

[rogue06]

Except it would have revealed nothing and would have, in fact, reflected positively on the agency if she said no. By refusing to answer, she may as well have just said yes.

Only for those determined to see it that way. It's a lot like the 5A. You might assume that the person who pleads the Fifth is guilty but there are are many different reasons for remaining silent that don't mean you're guilty. Or like I mentioned in another thread, police are instructed to NOT apologize after a shooting if an innocent by-stander gets hit. You may conclude that the cops are heartless and uncaring but they are simply following instructions because their remarks could easily be taken as admitting culpability and opening them up to very expensive law suits.

So by refusing to answer she did nothing whatsoever but follow proper procedure as she and everyone else in that agency has been instructed to do. Knowing that, if you choose to read more into it than that, any conclusion you reach is simply not supported by the facts.

[rogue06]

Fun thing about informants, the FBI had an informant inside the OathKeepers, Greg McWhirter, per the NYT (behind paywall) The number two person. So the FBI had an OathKeeper informant but refused to prevent the activities of the OathKeeper or step up security on 1/6.

And Trump offered to provide thousands of National Guard to ensure the peace but Nancy Pelosi turned that request down. Funny that nobody ever asks her about that.

[rogue06]

Only those that entered the Capital were arrested.

A more in-depth!?!?!? means nothing. It is obvious that many? were arrested who never entered the Capital,

Would you make up your mind?

[shunyadragon]

Would you make up your mind?

OK, the first citation is not clear please cite this statement in the full context. I thought I said something like, 'most of those arrested entered the Capital or committed offences lke assualt and damaged property. I apolgise for the miss statement if this is what actually said,

My mind is made up no problem, hundreds like Epps committed various offences and were not arrested nor charged with a crime. Yes, no problem that many who were arrested DID NOT enter the Capital.

[Stoic]

And Trump offered to provide thousands of National Guard to ensure the peace but Nancy Pelosi turned that request down. Funny that nobody ever asks her about that.

Assuming that's true, she might have made a different decision if he had told her that he was planning to rile up a large crowd and then send them her way.


As to whether it's true: https://www.politifact.com/factcheck...democrats-den/

[Sparko]

Fun thing about informants, the FBI had an informant inside the OathKeepers, Greg McWhirter, per the NYT (behind paywall) The number two person. So the FBI had an OathKeeper informant but refused to prevent the activities of the OathKeeper or step up security on 1/6.

They probably instigated the plan themselves!

[Mountain Man]

Assuming that's true, she might have made a different decision if he had told her that he was planning to rile up a large crowd and then send them her way.


As to whether it's true: https://www.politifact.com/factcheck...democrats-den/

Yes, riled up a crowd by telling them to "peacefully and patriotically make your voices heard". Such provocative language!

[Stoic]

All three were at the barricade breach.

And being there was not illegal. Moving past the original locations of the barricades was illegal, but most people were not arrested just for that.

Epps also directed people to the Capitol on 1/6.

So did Trump. But it wasn't illegal, assuming Epps didn't incite them to riot once they got there.

That location was restricted area, so yes it was illegal.

When the barricades were breached, Epps was not in the restricted area. That happened afterwards.

This Samsel?

Yes.

Ryan Samsel told The Gateway Pundit that he was beaten by the guards repeatedly, tied to a chair for 12 hours until he developed blood clots. Ryan suffered a broken face and a ruptured kidney. The guards later broke the right side of his face. Now he has precancerous growths on his chest that are spreading and the US government will not allow him medical treatment.

I'd like to know what the Gateway Pundit found when they followed up on Samsel's claims.

What did the doctors have to say?