World War Three?

[Mountain Man]

They are still reporting it on the news as far as I can tell. I think the difference is now they are delivering the MiGs to the US in Germany rather than giving them directly to Ukraine. And now it's up to us to figure out how to give them to Ukraine without setting off WW3.

This seems to be political gamesmanship at this point. Blinken was trying to force Poland's hand, and Poland is saying, "Nothing doing, son. You want those planes in Ukraine, you figure out how to get them there without starting a world war!"

https://theconservativetreehouse.com...gainst-russia/

[Sparko]

March 6, the Chancellery of the Prime Minister of Poland rejected Blinken's claim, calling it "fake news" and "misinformation" and said that Poland had no plans to send aircraft to Ukraine, or to let Ukraine use their airfields. Did they change their mind in only two days?

https://theconservativetreehouse.com...ken-as-a-liar/

Well from the story I quoted (dated today) they are NOT giving the MiGs to Ukraine. They are delivering them to the US base in Germany.

[Sparko]

So here is an official statement from Poland saying they are willing to swap MiGs for F-16s

The authorities of the Republic of Poland, after consultations between the President and the Government, are ready to deploy – immediately and free of charge – all their MIG-29 jets to the Ramstein Air Base and place them at the disposal of the Government of the United States of America.

At the same time, Poland requests the United States to provide us with used aircraft with corresponding operational capabilities. Poland is ready to immediately establish the conditions of purchase of the planes.
The Polish Government also requests other NATO Allies – owners of MIG-29 jets – to act in the same vein.
https://www.gov.pl/web/diplomacy/sta...nes-to-ukraine

But now Psaki and the White House are hemming and hawing about it:

White House, DoD lower expectations of Polish warplanes for Ukraine

WASHINGTON ― The White House and Pentagon on Monday downplayed the likelihood of a three-way deal for Poland to give MiG-29 aircraft to Ukraine and for the U.S. to backfill the Polish fleet with American F-16 fighters.

The cautious remarks from U.S. officials on Monday, with signals from Warsaw there would be no deal, are a blow to Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenksky, who pleaded with U.S. lawmakers in a Zoom call Saturday for more military planes and support as his country fights a Russian invasion.

White House Press Secretary Jen Psaki told reporters Monday the administration is not opposing such a deal, but said there are significant logistical challenges, such as sending F-16s to Poland and then replacing them in the U.S.

“There are a number of challenging practical questions, including how the planes would actually be transferred from Poland to Ukraine, right? So, are they going to fly? Where will they depart from? Where will they land? Those are all very important questions here,” she said, adding: “Procuring new planes and transferring serious weapon systems often take years to do from the United States.”

Pentagon spokesman John Kirby sought to temper expectations as well, telling reporters “we’re very early on in a discussion here about what the possibility could be” and that it’s “not a done deal at this point.” It’s unclear how many U.S. aircraft would be involved or how they would be transported, he said.

“It’s just a discussion about the possibility of should there be a nation that would want to give aircraft and would ask for a backfill from the United States,” Kirby said in describing the talks. “Should that happen, what would that look like, how would we do that? We don’t have all the answers right now.”
https://www.defensenews.com/pentagon...s-for-ukraine/

[Mountain Man]

Poland is not willing to do Blinken's dirty work for him, and Blinken wants to keep his own hands clean.

Well played, Poland.

[Ronson]

Poland is not willing to do Blinken's dirty work for him, and Blinken wants to keep his own hands clean.

Well played, Poland.

Oh, I see now. Since the MiGs aren't US aircraft, we'd give US aircraft to Poland on the condition they give the Russian MiGs to Ukraine - which would absolve the US from being directly involved. Sneaky.

But either way, if Putin sees it as an act of war from either the US or Poland, they're both NATO so both would be in the fray.

[seer]

Oh, I see now. Since the MiGs aren't US aircraft, we'd give US aircraft to Poland on the condition they give the Russian MiGs to Ukraine - which would absolve the US from being directly involved. Sneaky.

But either way, if Putin sees it as an act of war from either the US or Poland, they're both NATO so both would be in the fray.

But Poland is going to send them to a US base and then the Ukrainians fly them out. That puts the US right in the middle of it - not good...

[Mountain Man]

But Poland is going to send them to a US base and then the Ukrainians fly them out. That puts the US right in the middle of it - not good...

No decision has been made. The State Department's response was basically, "Uh, yeah, we'll get back to you."

[seanD]

But Poland is going to send them to a US base and then the Ukrainians fly them out. That puts the US right in the middle of it - not good...

The slow escalation creep.

[seer]

The slow escalation creep.

Nice, a slow creep to the holocaust...

[Gondwanaland]

But Poland is going to send them to a US base and then the Ukrainians fly them out. That puts the US right in the middle of it - not good...

Not alll that sure how that's any different than our sending them anti-tank and anti-aircraft weaponry, weapons, ammunition, etc..

[Gondwanaland]

Sounds like a second Russian General has bitten the dust. The first a few days back was a General who had a career as a well respected paratrooper, this one has a long service record in the 2nd Chechen War, Syria, and the Crimea annexation.


https://www.yahoo.com/news/vitaly-ge...015131090.html

A Russian general has been killed in fighting around Kharkiv, Ukrainian intelligence has claimed, which would make him the second general the Russian army has lost in Ukraine in a week.

The intelligence arm of the Ukrainian defence ministry said Maj Gen Vitaly Gerasimov, chief of staff of the 41st Army, had been killed outside the eastern Ukrainian city of Kharkiv, along with other senior officers.

The ministry also broadcast what it claimed was a conversation between two Russian FSB officers discussing the death and complaining that their secure communications were no longer functioning inside Ukraine.

The investigative journalism agency Bellingcat said it had confirmed Gerasimov’s death with a Russian source. Its executive director, Christo Grozev, said they had also identified the senior FSB officer in the intercepted conversation.


Gerasimov took part in the second Chechen war, the Russian military operation in Syria, and the annexation of Crimea, winning medals from those campaigns.

If confirmed, Gerasimov would be the second Russian general from the 41st Army to die within a week in Vladimir Putin’s invasion of Ukraine. At the beginning of March, its deputy commander, Major General Andrei Sukhovetsky, was confirmed by Russian media to have been killed.


The loss of top ranking officers has come at a time when much of Putin’s invasion force has become bogged down by logistical problems, poor morale and Ukrainian resistance. The failure of its encrypted communications system could be another severe blow.

“In the call, you hear the Ukraine-based FSB officer ask his boss if he can talk via the secure Era system. The boss says Era is not working,” Grozev said on Twitter. “Era is a super expensive cryptophone system that [Russia’s defence ministry] introduced in 2021 with great fanfare. It guaranteed [to] work ‘in all conditions’.”

On Tuesday, the Ukrainian president, Volodymyr Zelenskiy, said the war was “like a nightmare” for Russia and hailed the Ukrainian resistance effort.

His comments came after Linda Thomas-Greenfield, the US ambassador to the United Nations, accused Vladimir Putin of having a plan to “brutalise Ukraine” by shelling cities.

[rogue06]

MSNBC's Joy Reid: World paying attention to Ukraine because it's a 'White ... Christian nation'

Joy Reid said, 'Let’s face it, the world is paying attention because this is happening in Europe'

https://www.foxnews.com/media/msnbc-...ristian-nation

Nothing to do with the fact that one side not only has but has threatened to use nukes or that it could trigger WWIII if NATO countries get involved.

And the fact that it has sparked a worldwide energy crisis and being one of the world's bread baskets, may trigger famines.

For Joy everything is about race and if you give her enough time to figure it out, she'll explain anything through that lens.

As we see here.

[Mountain Man]

Follow-up to the Poland story:

Earlier this afternoon, Poland called Secretary of State Anthony Blinken’s bluff, over the U.S. claims that Poland was going to send fighter jets into Ukraine. This followed Sunday’s announcement where Poland said the U.S. State Dept was lying.

Earlier today, Poland said they would give the U.S. the planes if Blinken and Biden wanted to start World War III, but Poland wasn’t going to help the U.S. create a war with Russia. This put the U.S. in a ‘put up or shut up’ position. Well, Blinken and Biden just folded, per the Pentagon:

Pentagon – We are now in contact with the Polish government following the statement issued today. As we have said, the decision about whether to transfer Polish-owned planes to Ukraine is ultimately one for the Polish government. We will continue consulting with our Allies and partners about our ongoing security assistance to Ukraine, because, in fact, Poland’s proposal shows just some of the complexities this issue presents.

The prospect of fighter jets “at the disposal of the Government of the United States of America” departing from a U.S./NATO base in Germany to fly into airspace that is contested with Russia over Ukraine raises serious concerns for the entire NATO alliance. It is simply not clear to us that there is a substantive rationale for it. We will continue to consult with Poland and our other NATO allies about this issue and the difficult logistical challenges it presents, but we do not believe Poland’s proposal is a tenable one. (read more)

Well played Team Poland, well played!

https://theconservativetreehouse.com...world-war-iii/

Given what the Pentagon says in the second paragraph, the obvious question is why the hell were they trying to get Poland to commit to sending the planes in the first place!

[seanD]

Follow-up to the Poland story:

Earlier this afternoon, Poland called Secretary of State Anthony Blinken’s bluff, over the U.S. claims that Poland was going to send fighter jets into Ukraine. This followed Sunday’s announcement where Poland said the U.S. State Dept was lying.

Earlier today, Poland said they would give the U.S. the planes if Blinken and Biden wanted to start World War III, but Poland wasn’t going to help the U.S. create a war with Russia. This put the U.S. in a ‘put up or shut up’ position. Well, Blinken and Biden just folded, per the Pentagon:

Pentagon – We are now in contact with the Polish government following the statement issued today. As we have said, the decision about whether to transfer Polish-owned planes to Ukraine is ultimately one for the Polish government. We will continue consulting with our Allies and partners about our ongoing security assistance to Ukraine, because, in fact, Poland’s proposal shows just some of the complexities this issue presents.

The prospect of fighter jets “at the disposal of the Government of the United States of America” departing from a U.S./NATO base in Germany to fly into airspace that is contested with Russia over Ukraine raises serious concerns for the entire NATO alliance. It is simply not clear to us that there is a substantive rationale for it. We will continue to consult with Poland and our other NATO allies about this issue and the difficult logistical challenges it presents, but we do not believe Poland’s proposal is a tenable one. (read more)

Well played Team Poland, well played!

https://theconservativetreehouse.com...world-war-iii/

Given what the Pentagon says in the second paragraph, the obvious question is why the hell were they trying to get Poland to commit to sending the planes in the first place!

It sounds like a guy in the middle of a fight, egging on the two in order escalate the fight and keep it going, all the while acting like he has nothing to do with it. It's interesting that this seemed to occur when Zelensky publicly announced he was having second thoughts about joining NATO. It was definitely on the same day, though I don't know for sure the sequence of the two events.

[tabibito]

She.... had a little bit of a point. Though it may be more it being European that makes the difference.

But there's definitely a stark difference between Poland reaction to refugees from there, vs say their reaction to Syrians fleeing civil war. And well, just look at Yemen where the world has turned its eyes from Saudi Arabia's horrendous actions there.

She's not all right but she also isn't all wrong.

The plight of the refugees in both cases is the same, true enough.However, the responses to a civil war and those to an invasion are different, particularly when the invader places other countries under threat of retaliation if they consider intervening.