George H. W. Bush voting for Clinton

[Starlight]

rebuilding the military

What does that phrase even mean?



How do you "rebuild" the world's biggest army? Does he want to spend even more than is already being spent???

Other times he has suggested that the US could pull out of NATO or cease funding it, and that he doesn't see a role for the US to be defending other countries, and that instead it should redirect military spending to fix problems at home like spend on infrastructure. The times when I have agreed with Trump most have been when he's suggested the US be less interventionist and dial down its military role in the world and redirect money to social programs. Yet at other times he suggests the US should 'rebuild' its military (because it's military is soooo underfunded currently )... because apparently the largest military budget in the world by far is causing all the tanks to rust or something. The guy just contradicts himself on everything.

[Sparko]

To stop the Nazis, obviously.

And it's not just one base in Germany, it's 21-38 depending on who's counting them.

The nazi's were stopped before establishing the bases in Germany, Starlight. The bases were there as part of NATO to defend Europe from the USSR. As I said earlier, I lived on three Army bases in Germany in the 1960's and 1970's that were Pershing Missile bases, who's primary purpose was as a nuclear deterrent to the USSR. After the USSR dissolved, a lot of the US Military bases were closed down across Europe. The bases were and are not occupying forces. LPOT is entirely correct on this matter and you and Sea of Red and Roy are the ones who are wrong and do not have a clue what you are talking about.

[Sparko]

No. You have agreements in place that maintain your military presence in those countries. US military presence in those countries was established by invasion during WWII.

some were, others were established AFTER the occupation. Most in fact. Through NATO.

[Sparko]

So what other things do you talk about?

The only reason you gave was emergency aid.

They are used as deployment centers for reaching the middle east and other parts of the world also. and they are still there as NATO bases to defend Europe from potential enemies.

[demi-conservative]

Some realistic means of implementing his proposals would be nice, otherwise they remain firmly in the realm of "braggadocious" big talk.

Is Tassman doing 'let's dishonestly pretend Trump has no website' act again??

[Sparko]

Hey, don't answer my sarcasm with a reasonable explanation!

Now that the cold-war's over though, the US might want to consider reducing its military presence. Down to say 1 or 2 bases in Germany... so by 90% or so.

The ~600 military bases worldwide could be reduced to like 20. That would still allow for a couple on each continent and a half-dozen in the middle east.

They did greatly reduce the number of bases in Germany and Europe, beginning in 1989 after Reagan got the Berlin Wall to come down and the Soviet Union to dissolve in the early 1990's. You are welcome.

[Starlight]

The nazi's were stopped before establishing the bases in Germany, Starlight.

Yes, I'm well aware of that, hence the sarcasm.

I lived on three Army bases in Germany in the 1960's and 1970's

I'd note that living on a US military base isn't quite the same as living in a foreign country, in terms of actually experiencing that country, because you're surrounded by Americans.

The bases were and are not occupying forces.

Obviously. We're all well aware of that. However, spending 10 times what any other country is spending, and having 20 times as many military bases as any other country, still seems excessive, which is my point.

LPOT is entirely correct on this matter

LPOT wasted the one time in her life that she was correct on something that wasn't even the topic of discussion? Aw, that sucks.

and you and Sea of Red and Roy are the ones who are wrong and do not have a clue what you are talking about.

Wait, you mean the US isn't spending billions on its military per year and isn't operating hundreds of military facilities around the world?

[Starlight]

after Reagan got the Berlin Wall to come down and the Soviet Union to dissolve in the early 1990's. You are welcome.

Oh yeah, Reagan knocked the wall down. Was it with a powerful speech? Or by funding the Taliban? Or just by sheer charisma?

Thanks oh great Reagan for single-handedly destroying the nasty Soviet Union! It was all your personal doing and not at all the result of long-present social, political and economic forces that had been around long before your rise to power! And it had nothing to do with the problems within the Soviet Union itself that it was facing as a result of dumb communist policies. It was all the Great Reagan's doing. By simply being there, he made them crumble from his majesty.

[Sparko]

Yes, I'm well aware of that, hence the sarcasm.

I'd note that living on a US military base isn't quite the same as living in a foreign country, in terms of actually experiencing that country, because you're surrounded by Americans.

The military bases in Germany were smack dab in the middle of German villages, Starlight and we lived in housing off base, and spent most of our time mixing with the locals. Plus I already told you my mother was German and I have family over there. But what was your point anyway? we were talking about WHY the bases were there and their purpose, not whether they were isolated from the locals (they were not)

Obviously. We're all well aware of that. However, spending 10 times what any other country is spending, and having 20 times as many military bases as any other country, still seems excessive, which is my point.

Again much of the US spending is to defend their allies. That is why they spend 10 times as much as any other country. They are defending 10 times as much territory. As Trump mentioned in the debate, the US is footing about 75% of NATO. It would be nice if the other countries pitched in and the US didn't have to spend so much.

[Sparko]

Oh yeah, Reagan knocked the wall down. Was it with a powerful speech? Or by funding the Taliban? Or just by sheer charisma?

Thanks oh great Reagan for single-handedly destroying the nasty Soviet Union! It was all your personal doing and not at all the result of long-present social, political and economic forces that had been around long before your rise to power! And it had nothing to do with the problems within the Soviet Union itself that it was facing as a result of dumb communist policies. It was all the Great Reagan's doing. By simply being there, he made them crumble from his majesty.

pretty much, yeah. You're welcome.

[lilpixieofterror]

What elements of religion do you debate?

Mainly Christian philosophy, NT history, and Christian theology.

[lilpixieofterror]

Hey, don't answer my sarcasm with a reasonable explanation!

Now that the cold-war's over though, the US might want to consider reducing its military presence. Down to say 1 or 2 bases in Germany... so by 90% or so.

The ~600 military bases worldwide could be reduced to like 20. That would still allow for a couple on each continent and a half-dozen in the middle east.

Wow, this is insanity and shows how little you understand what you're talking about. That's right, let's take all of our forces and put them in a tiny spot, so if an enemy wants to wipe out our strategic strength in one blow; they could do it. Good job or are you even aware of military requirements of distributing your forces so they don't make one giant target for your enemy? There's a reason that US combat power is distributed to several bases or do you think the US likes having lots of expensive installations around the world and just keeps them for the fun of it?

[Sparko]

Wow, this is insanity and shows how little you understand what you're talking about. That's right, let's take all of our forces and put them in a tiny spot, so if an enemy wants to wipe out our strategic strength in one blow; they could do it. Good job or are you even aware of military requirements of distributing your forces so they don't make one giant target for your enemy? There's a reason that US combat power is distributed to several bases or do you think the US likes having lots of expensive installations around the world and just keeps them for the fun of it?

Starlight (as you can tell by his name) is a flowerchild born 50 years too late. He understands nothing about military.

[Adrift]

Starlight (as you can tell by his name) is a flowerchild born 50 years too late. He understands nothing about military.

Many of his views would likely turn the stomachs of flowerchildren.

[lilpixieofterror]

Ask the DoD. It's their report.


But you knew that already because you're in the military...

Nice try Carr but unlike you guys, these things effect me directly so yeah... I am well aware of these things and asking people to define things because I know they just read a number, didn't bother to look at the details, and decided to rant about the 'excess' without bothering to gather the facts before they opened their mouths. See, most of these installations exist for a wide range of reasons and have lots of purposes. One, in Germany, is a resort ran by the DoD that has no purpose beyond providing R and R to those stationed over in Europe. Some are small post, that have few personnel assigned that are there for a specific mission. Yet others are there to maintain a larger facility, that is kept in a stand by status in case it is ever needed. Others are just housing units that exist to house US military personnel and their families that are stationed at nearby bases. Some are also joint bases where several nations (in some cases, the host nation) is there along with us. My point is quite simple, most of these '600 military installations' are not huge bases, but small outpost with some resources assigned or exist to fulfill a specific role in supporting these larger bases. If you're going to suggest things about US bases overseas. You should try to learn why they exist and what they do before you start to scream about them being 'excessive'. The US doesn't maintain these places for fun or because they like having a ton of expensive resources all over the world. They exist for specific reasons and purposes that are listed out in the reports. If the people whining about them had actually bothered to read them.