The Insurrection Lie II: False Reports ...Continue To Unravel.

[Stoic]

The version that says he returned to the station after telling his brother he was bear-sprayed but was OK would indicate that he die NOT die in the line of duty - but subsequently from a stroke due to a blood clot.

If he suffered a stroke less than 24 hours after the riot, and later died from it, then he died in the line of duty. By law.

No, the fact that you try to minimize the actions of the other officers in an attempt to elevate this one is NOT agreed upon.

His family had requested his death not be politicized -- Pelosi and Schumer (not the Congress) chose to do just the opposite.

I don't consider honoring him to be politicizing his death.

Even his own mother maintains he died of a stroke - not from injuries sustained "in the line of duty".

My next post will be the statement his own family issued on his behalf.

Be sure to highlight the part where they request that their son not be honored.

[Cow Poke]

If he suffered a stroke less than 24 hours after the riot, and later died from it, then he died in the line of duty. By law.

So, now you've resorted to just making things up -- that's pretty desperate.

I don't consider honoring him to be politicizing his death.

'
Of course you don't - I think you've gone from "trying to defend the crap" to making up your own.

Be sure to highlight the part where they request that their son not be honored.

Anybody with half a brain would realize that elevating him to such a place of honor, lying about him being bludgeoned to death by insurrectionists with a fire extinguisher when his own mother acknowledged he wasn't even hit - he died from a stroke caused by a blood clot -- and asked that his death not be politicized - was the Democrats using his tragic death for their own purposes in grossly exaggerating the events at the Capitol for their own purposes in impeaching Trump....

So, yet another case of "OMB, so...."

[Cow Poke]

Mother of slain officer Brian Sicknick still doesn’t have answers about his death

Some excerpts....

Late Capitol Police officer Brian Sicknick’s mother said she still doesn’t know what killed her son but doesn’t think it was because he was hit in the head with a fire extinguisher.

While investigators haven’t released a cause of death for Sicknick, a Capitol Police officer whose death after the Jan. 6 riot sparked outrage, his mother, 74-year-old Gladys Sicknick, said she has largely been kept in the dark.

Of course, Capitol Police are doing their best to tie this to injuries in the line of duty, in spite of the fact that Sicknick's brother and mother both tell a different story.

“He wasn’t hit on the head, no. We think he had a stroke. But we don’t know anything for sure,” Sicknick told the Daily Mail. “We’d love to know what happened.”

His brother...

“He texted me last night and said, ‘I got pepper-sprayed twice,’ and he was in good shape,” Ken Sicknick said.

Nothing at all about any injury.
And about the only official statement we have...

Douglas Buchanan, chief of communications for Washington, D.C.'s Department of Fire and Emergency Medical Services, said Brian Sicknick was not rushed from the scene of the Capitol siege to the hospital and had returned to his department before his hospitalization.

[Stoic]

So, now you've resorted to just making things up -- that's pretty desperate.

I explained it just a week ago in post #53 of this thread. I know our memories aren't as good as when we were young, but...

Source: https://psob.bja.ojp.gov/psobact34

(k) Death by heart attack, stroke, or vascular rupture; presumption
As determined by the Bureau, a heart attack, stroke, or vascular rupture suffered by a public safety officer shall be presumed to constitute a personal injury within the meaning of subsection (a), sustained in the line of duty by the officer and directly and proximately resulting in death, if—
(1) the public safety officer, while on duty—
(A) engages in a situation involving nonroutine stressful or strenuous physical law enforcement, fire suppression, rescue, hazardous material response, emergency medical services, prison security, disaster relief, or other emergency response activity; or
(B) participates in a training exercise involving nonroutine stressful or strenuous physical activity;
(2) the heart attack, stroke, or vascular rupture commences—
(A) while the officer is engaged or participating as described in paragraph (1);
(B) while the officer remains on that duty after being engaged or participating as described in paragraph (1); or
(C) not later than 24 hours after the officer is engaged or participating as described in paragraph (1); and
(3) the heart attack, stroke, or vascular rupture directly and proximately results in the death of the public safety officer, unless competent medical evidence establishes that the heart attack, stroke, or vascular rupture was unrelated to the engagement or participation or was directly and proximately caused by something other than the mere presence of cardiovascular-disease risk factors.

© Copyright Original Source

[Cow Poke]

I explained it just a week ago in post #53 of this thread. I know our memories aren't as good as when we were young, but...

No, I remember quite well you trying to pull that stunt -- and it would have to be predicated on the officer having had something happen that could be tied to the stroke - which was caused by a blood clot - and his own brother clearly stated that, other than having been pepper-sprayed, Sicknick was in good shape.

Lemme remind you once again of the thread title and the OP --- having to do with lies that are unraveling.

Remember - this all started with reports that he was "bludgeoned to death with a fire extinguisher" - which is clearly a lie.

So you've had to back all the way down to ASSUMING that something happened during the police action which is related to a stroke caused by a blood clot, absent any evidence of any other injury.

That's quite an "unraveling". Again, even his mother says it was a stroke.

So, lemme ask you - why is it so important for you to try to defend the Democrats' lies? Is it a case of OMB?

[Stoic]

No, I remember quite well you trying to pull that stunt -- and it would have to be predicated on the officer having had something happen that could be tied to the stroke

No, the law does not require that.

It's enough that he "engages in a situation involving non-routine stressful or strenuous physical law enforcement", that the stroke "commences not later than 24 hours" afterwards, and that the stroke "results in the death of the public safety officer."

[Cow Poke]

No, the law does not require that.

That whole section is on death benefits, to which he would be entitled, conditionally.

It's enough that he "engages in a situation involving non-routine stressful or strenuous physical law enforcement", that the stroke "commences not later than 24 hours" afterwards, and that the stroke "results in the death of the public safety officer."

And you kinda sorta left out the line that says...

unless competent medical evidence establishes that the heart attack, stroke, or vascular rupture was unrelated to the engagement or participation or was directly and proximately caused by something other than the mere presence of cardiovascular-disease risk factors.

Since we can't get the coroner's report - or pretty much anything else - we really don't know.

But, once again, that's a FAR CRY from the initial lie - still being reported in some circles - that he was bludgeoned to death with a fire extinguisher....

[Cow Poke]

If he suffered a stroke less than 24 hours after the riot, and later died from it, then he died in the line of duty. By law.

I don't know who snookered you into believing that's "the law" -- It's actually a Benefits Program to provide for families in the death of an officer. "The law" you keep citing is simply the rules governing payment.

bja.png

A unique effort of the U.S. Department of Justice; local, state, tribal, and federal public safety agencies; and national organizations, the Public Safety Officers' Benefits (PSOB) Program provides death and education benefits to survivors of fallen law enforcement officers, firefighters, and other first responders, and disability benefits to officers catastrophically injured in the line of duty.

The BJA PSOB Office is honored to review the more than 1000 claims submitted each year on behalf of America's fallen and catastrophically disabled public safety heroes and their loved ones.

[Stoic]

That whole section is on death benefits, to which he would be entitled, conditionally.

It's all about whether he should be considered to have been killed in the line of duty.

And you kinda sorta left out the line that says...

unless competent medical evidence establishes that the heart attack, stroke, or vascular rupture was unrelated to the engagement or participation or was directly and proximately caused by something other than the mere presence of cardiovascular-disease risk factors.

Since we can't get the coroner's report - or pretty much anything else - we really don't know.

If we're going to believe the anonymous sources who claim that there was no evidence of blunt force trauma, we should believe that they would have mentioned any evidence that the stroke was caused by something other than his police work. (Both beliefs are subject to change if new evidence comes along, of course.)

But, once again, that's a FAR CRY from the initial lie - still being reported in some circles - that he was bludgeoned to death with a fire extinguisher....

Sure. But I considered it settled some time ago that he wasn't bludgeoned to death with a fire extinguisher. It just takes a while for everyone to get the word.

[Watermelon]

Wow, another medical expert / apologist trying to justify the elevation of a police officer to near "assassinated president" position.

No... just making a commonly known statement. It seems like you're the one playing the medical expert by claiming the attack had nothing to do with the stroke.

False.

source?

More than 24 hours after the event, and with ZERO signs of blunt force trauma --- perhaps you forgot that was the claim?

I couldn't find any information on when he suffered the stroke or how long he was kept alive on the ventilator. Causation isn't dependent on time so 24 hours isn't a problem. I have no issues accepting that blunt force trauma wasn't found since the original claim had been retracted and the absence of evidence indicating otherwise.

That there was 'zero signs of blunt force trauma' appears to come from an unnamed source reported by CNN. Isn't this an issue for you?

No. Especially with no eye-witness accounts, no physical evidence, and the entire event based on "anonymous sources" which have now been... um... they simply don't exist.

[Cow Poke]

It's all about whether he should be considered to have been killed in the line of duty.

But it wasn't "the law" as you claimed -- I kept reading that thing thinking "this sounds more like a union-negotiated contract than law", and - sure enough - it was.

If we're going to believe the anonymous sources who claim that there was no evidence of blunt force trauma,

His mother is not an anonymous source. Remember, it was "anonymous sources" that started this pack of lies in the first place.
First they were "Capitol Police", and when the story was exposed as a lie, they were reduced to "sources close to the Capitol".
Lies, lies and more lies.

we should believe that they would have mentioned any evidence that the stroke was caused by something other than his police work. (Both beliefs are subject to change if new evidence comes along, of course.)

No, we should believe that the "anonymous sources" shouldn't have lied in the first place. And DURN sure shouldn't have been relied upon for such an important factor.

Sure. But I considered it settled some time ago that he wasn't bludgeoned to death with a fire extinguisher. It just takes a while for everyone to get the word.

It was used to hype up the media and the American people to support the sham impeachment.

Why are you so willing to believe lies rather than facts?

[Cow Poke]

I couldn't find any information on when he suffered the stroke or how long he was kept alive on the ventilator.

Think really hard about that - Truth is never afraid of the light.

His own mother can't even get answers. She had been told he was already dead - then, nope, he's not dead - then, on the way to the hospital - sorry, NOW he's dead.
Multiple conflicting stories on so many aspects of this.

"He died at the Capitol" - nope "He died at back at the police station" - nope "He died in the hospital after being back at the station - AND "He died from the big gash on his head" - nope "He died from a stroke" - well - "the stroke was caused by the blow to his head" - nope....

Now, how do we know the stroke was not cause by the blow to his head? Because the "blow to his head" was an outright lie.
Why do you suppose there are so many self-conflicting stories on this, and even his own Momma can't get the Truth?

[Mountain Man]

All I'm claiming is that inhaling pepper spray OR suffering a minor injury to his neck could have caused a stroke.

In the case that someone has asthma, or suffers a very specific type of injury, yes, it's possible but unlikely. However, there is no indication that this is relevant to Officer Sicknick's circumstances.

[Cow Poke]

This really reminds me of the time I came across a man lying in a parking lot on cold snowy Texas night at 2 AM - I got out of my patrol car to check on him, and had just finished breathalyzer training in how to recognize conditions that mimic alcohol intoxication. (I was the certified breathalyzer operator) First thing I noticed was the "fruity" smell of his breath, and immediately called for an ambulance.

My shift commander arrived on the scene, and told me to cancel the squad, because the man was just a drunk and needed a night in the slammer to sleep it off. I argued that he was not 'a drunk' and needed medical attention. The OIC ordered me, again, to cancel the squad, and I refused, so he got on the radio and canceled them.

Our city doctor stopped by immediately after that, and offered his assistance. Upon a very brief examination, the doctor confirmed the man was in insulin shock and needed to go to the hospital immediately. The OIC called the squad, but now they're 30 minutes later than they would have been, and the man nearly died.

The OIC was good buddies with the guys from the Fire Department who operated the ambulance, and they conspired to change the radio log to delete any evidence that the squad was called, then cancelled, then called again. My shift report was drastically different than the station's radio log, which was different than the Fire Department's dispatch record, which was different from the OIC's shift report.

This sounds so much like that. You lie, then you have to tell another lie to cover for the first one, then you go to speculation and guessing and more lies.

Fact - Sicknick was NEVER hit with a fire extinguisher - much less "bludgeoned to death and died at the scene".
Fact - His own Momma says he died of a stroke due to a blood clot.
Fact - His own brother said Sicknick had texted him that he had been pepper-sprayed, but stated that he was otherwise OK
Fact - His own Momma cannot get any answers, and had been given conflicting reports about his injuries, his death, he's not dead, he's dead again.

But, somehow, you guys got this all figured out, because it just absolutely HAS to be that Sicknick was killed by the protesters, by hook or by crook.

[Cow Poke]

In the case that someone has asthma, or suffers a very specific type of injury, yes, it's possible but unlikely. However, there is no indication that this is relevant to Officer Sicknick's circumstances.

Pelosi and Schumer promised to find "who did this" - if there ever was such a person, the LAST thing Pelosi and Schumer want is for that person to be deposed and, eventually, testify in court.
Same with the "anonymous" Capitol Police offers who supposedly gave the first account - and later became "sources close to the Capitol". Those 'sources' will never testify because I don't believe they exist.