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The Insurrection Lie II: False Reports ...Continue To Unravel.

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  • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
    There is SO much wrong in what you posted that I don't have time to deal with all of it tonight, so I'll just pick this one for now...



    That's not how it works -- there were supposedly anonymous sources that said he was bludgeoned to death with a fire extinguisher, absent any evidence, testimony, eye witness account, or even any statement from him. He managed to text that he had been bear-sprayed --- you'd think if he'd been clobbered by a fire extinguisher, he would have mentioned that.
    As a matter of fact, the "bludgeoned to death with a fire extinguisher" has been totally abandoned by all but the House Managers still citing it as part of their prosecution, even though it was absolutely blatantly false.

    It was absolutely shoddy 'journalism' that had to be walked back by those who published it - that's how much it stunk.

    People do not receive the high honor of lying in state in the Capitol Rotunda because they had a stroke.



    IF????? No blunt force trauma - no evidence of any impact - no evidence of any bodily damage other than, perhaps, bear spray irritation, which is, admittedly, no picnic.

    Again - you totally don't get the concept of such high honors --- they are NEVER doled out based on rumor or speculation.



    Of course you are! No proof whatsoever, based only on rumor that was retracted, but your obsession with OMB causes you to want so badly to believe this you care about the facts.
    And, besides OMB, on what basis would you "give it the benefit of the doubt"?



    As were MANY other people, some of whom were wounded worse than he was. This is a kick in the teeth to them.
    They were doing the job they get paid to do.



    "That entire day"? How long did the riot last, Jim? See what you're doing? You are grossly exaggerating everything in order to TRY to make a case that simply does not exist.



    Wow --- so, assuming his stroke (which we know was caused by a blood clot) was aggravated by (and that's REALLY stretching it) his action at the Capitol that day - that's cause for him to be recognized above ALL OTHERS who defended the Capitol that day?

    Jim - seriously, you accuse others of irrational thought - -- that's about as irrational as you can get!



    Might as well, have, you blasted them for half the year!



    So, here you go, again ---- in the case of Sicknick, you make every allowance possible, no matter how irrational, and make him a hero, where you villainized the federal officers who were protecting, among other things, federal property. And "Secretive"? You're still going with THAT?!?!? What "secret police" actually wear their unit patches on their shoulders?

    All you're doing is proving my claim ---
    A) you go through all kinds of hoops and hurdles STILL trying to make Sicknick a hero, when that has been exposed as a sham foisted by the Democrats for political purposes.
    2) you go through all kinds of hoops and hurdles trying to defend all of your attacks on OTHER federal officers because OMB.



    Your hysteria is causing you to read motivations into my words that do not exist, and to draw conclusions from my words that can't be logically derived from them.

    I'm going to give you some time to calm down before I post any more replies to you in this thread.
    He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me."

    "So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets"

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
      One more item, then I need to get to bed - some of us get up early and go to work.



      You and I both know that "a majority" was not the standard for conviction, and pretty much everybody in the world knew that a conviction was not in the cards.
      Perhaps they swallowed their own lies that Sicknick was "murdered" by the crowd, but that quickly crashed and burned.

      It would be GREAT if they did try Trump for the murder of Officer Sicknick, because that would call for evidence, motions for discovery, exposing the rumors and lies for what they were, and it would blow up in the face of the prosecution. Even they're not that stupid, I would think. They're really really hoping the issue of Sicknick just goes away.
      Extremely stressful conditions increase blood pressure which in turn increases the possibility of blood clots forming. The information that’s currently available is that Officer Sicknick collapsed during the attack and had to be resuscitated. He suffered a stroke the next day and had to be put on a ventilator and died at 9.30pm.

      If the extremely stressful condition is caused by someone during the commission of a felony, is that not second degree murder?


      Comment


      • Originally posted by Watermelon View Post

        Extremely stressful conditions increase blood pressure which in turn increases the possibility of blood clots forming. The information that’s currently available is that Officer Sicknick collapsed during the attack and had to be resuscitated. He suffered a stroke the next day and had to be put on a ventilator and died at 9.30pm.

        If the extremely stressful condition is caused by someone during the commission of a felony, is that not second degree murder?

        Assuming this information is accurate, then there is every reason to consider the trauma of the insurrection the primary cause of the stroke and his subsequent death. And good reason to then have honored him as he was for his service.
        He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me."

        "So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets"

        Comment


        • Interesting.

          If the stress of a random traffic stop causes a motorist to die of a heart attack, does the officer get charged?

          If elderly Roger Stone had died of a heart attack because of the violent way the Fascist Bunch of Idiots invaded his home, would the officers and their supervisors have been charged?
          Geislerminian Antinomian Kenotic Charispneumaticostal Gender Mutualist-Egalitarian.

          Beige Nationalist.

          "Everybody is somebody's heretic."

          Social Justice is usually the opposite of actual justice.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post

            Assuming this information is accurate, then there is every reason to consider the trauma of the insurrection the primary cause of the stroke and his subsequent death. And good reason to then have honored him as he was for his service.

            If the events are as described and complete then it would lead one to assume causation until proven otherwise. And before anyone starts on about ‘innocent until proven guilty’, it would be a situation where the sequence of complete events puts the attack on the capital as the proximate cause for the stroke which forces the defense to introduce reasonable doubt.

            However, the current information available doesn’t seem complete. The possibility of intervening events occurring between collapse and death is reasonable doubt if left unaccounted for.

            From the information provided so far I think it’s reasonable to conclude Officer Sicknick died from injuries sustained while defending the capital.


            https://www.propublica.org/article/o...cknick-capitol

            “He texted me last night and said, ‘I got pepper-sprayed twice,’ and he was in good shape,” said Ken Sicknick, his brother, as the family drove toward Washington. “Apparently he collapsed in the Capitol and they resuscitated him using CPR.”

            But the day after that text exchange, the family got word that Brian Sicknick had a blood clot and had had a stroke; a ventilator was keeping him alive.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Watermelon View Post


              If the events are as described and complete then it would lead one to assume causation until proven otherwise. And before anyone starts on about ‘innocent until proven guilty’, it would be a situation where the sequence of complete events puts the attack on the capital as the proximate cause for the stroke which forces the defense to introduce reasonable doubt.

              However, the current information available doesn’t seem complete. The possibility of intervening events occurring between collapse and death is reasonable doubt if left unaccounted for.

              From the information provided so far I think it’s reasonable to conclude Officer Sicknick died from injuries sustained while defending the capital.


              https://www.propublica.org/article/o...cknick-capitol

              “He texted me last night and said, ‘I got pepper-sprayed twice,’ and he was in good shape,” said Ken Sicknick, his brother, as the family drove toward Washington. “Apparently he collapsed in the Capitol and they resuscitated him using CPR.”

              But the day after that text exchange, the family got word that Brian Sicknick had a blood clot and had had a stroke; a ventilator was keeping him alive.
              If he collapsed in the capitol and had to be resuscitated using CPR, that underscores two elements.

              1) the severity of the trauma he experienced defending our lawmakers against the mob
              2) the extreme likelyhood his death was indeed a consequence of that trauma
              He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me."

              "So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets"

              Comment


              • Originally posted by NorrinRadd View Post
                Interesting.

                If the stress of a random traffic stop causes a motorist to die of a heart attack, does the officer get charged?

                If elderly Roger Stone had died of a heart attack because of the violent way the Fascist Bunch of Idiots invaded his home, would the officers and their supervisors have been charged?
                No because it has to be during the commission of a felony. Example would be robbing an elderly man at gunpoint causing him to have a heart attack and die.

                Causation is a link from the defendants conduct to the damages suffered by the victim. If conduct is legal (and not reckless or negligent) then you can’t be held liable for any resulting damages.

                Comment


                • The Democrats would be better off just forgetting Trump and moving on with the business of running the country. With every new scheme to "get Trump and make him pay" they are making themselves looked obsessed and ineffectual. It is starting to look like a Road Runner Cartoon and the Democrats are Wile E. Coyote.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Watermelon View Post
                    Extremely stressful conditions increase blood pressure which in turn increases the possibility of blood clots forming.
                    Wow, another medical expert / apologist trying to justify the elevation of a police officer to near "assassinated president" position.

                    The information that’s currently available is that Officer Sicknick collapsed during the attack and had to be resuscitated.
                    False.

                    He suffered a stroke the next day and had to be put on a ventilator and died at 9.30pm.
                    More than 24 hours after the event, and with ZERO signs of blunt force trauma --- perhaps you forgot that was the claim?

                    If the extremely stressful condition is caused by someone during the commission of a felony, is that not second degree murder?
                    No. Especially with no eye-witness accounts, no physical evidence, and the entire event based on "anonymous sources" which have now been... um... they simply don't exist.

                    "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Stoic View Post
                      I don't expect journalists (much less politicians) to fact check everything they say.
                      My what low standards you have.
                      Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                      But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                      Than a fool in the eyes of God


                      From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
                        If he collapsed in the capitol and had to be resuscitated using CPR, that underscores two elements.
                        No evidence of that happening.

                        1) the severity of the trauma he experienced defending our lawmakers against the mob
                        So, basically you're saying he's not cut out to be a cop, because hundreds of other cops also defended the capitol that day and didn't end up having strokes caused by blood clots.
                        You keep ignoring FACTS and going to rumor, conjecture and woulda shoulda coulda maybe.

                        2) the extreme likelyhood his death was indeed a consequence of that trauma
                        And that's a steaming pile of horsie poo. He texted his brother and said he was OK, and had been bear-sprayed.

                        Remember -- all this started with the flat out lie that he was bludgeoned to death with a fire extinguisher.
                        Never happened. The physical evidence shows ZERP blunt force trauma.

                        Again, you used to care about things like truth and facts. Now it's all "what if" and "maybe" and "might have been".
                        "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
                          Your hysteria is causing you to read motivations into my words that do not exist, and to draw conclusions from my words that can't be logically derived from them.
                          Your perception that I am in any sort of "hysteria" is absolutely nuts. I'm dealing in facts - you're dealing in rumors, conjecture, and false accounts.


                          I'm going to give you some time to calm down before I post any more replies to you in this thread.


                          It's OK, Jim - the facts will still be there, and I'll still point to them instead of rumor, speculation, assumptions --- which is all you got.

                          But I do wish to correct something for the record --- I said you used to actually care about truth and fact, but you have demonstrated repeatedly that facts don't matter when it comes to anything OMB related.
                          "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Watermelon View Post
                            No because it has to be during the commission of a felony. Example would be robbing an elderly man at gunpoint causing him to have a heart attack and die.

                            Causation is a link from the defendants conduct to the damages suffered by the victim. If conduct is legal (and not reckless or negligent) then you can’t be held liable for any resulting damages.
                            Well, first of all, you have a number of problems here.... in fact, a whole BUNCH of problems....

                            You'd have to assume that Sicknick was "an elderly man" - that's the example you gave.
                            In your example, the "elderly man" would need to die during the commission of the crime - not have a heart attack the next day.

                            The case of an "elderly man" having a heart attack the day after an armed robbery would be quite a challenge to prosecute.

                            It's no wonder you guys have to keep ignoring the actual FACTS, and move to conjecture and "maybe" and "might have".

                            Officer Sicknick was a trained professional paid to do the work of a Capitol Police officer, and apparently he did that well.
                            THE NEXT DAY, he has a stroke from a blood clot, having told his brother he was OK, but had been bear-sprayed.

                            And you guys keep repeating as FACT things that have already been proven false.
                            "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

                            Comment


                            • So, here's the deal.....

                              If you deal in FACTS, instead of rumor and conjecture, you really can't make a case that the high honor bestowed on Sicknick by the Democrats was warranted.

                              Again - it just doesn't work that this honor is bestowed on anybody immediately after an incident, with the exception of absolutely clear circumstances like an actual assassination.

                              Police Honors follow Military customs and traditions.
                              There would have to be credible evidence that the officer's death was actually in the line of duty in a specific heroic act.
                              Sicknick was doing his job, as were many many other officers - it's what he was trained for, and what he was paid to do.

                              I'm seeing two patterns here....

                              Posters keep presenting as fact things that have already been proven false. That's lazy at best, dishonest at worst.

                              Everybody defending the unjust elevation of Sicknick to the high honor of lying in state in the Capitol Rotunda is ignoring the fact that the claim was that he was "bludgeoned to death by the insurrectionists". That has proven to be absolutely false. No blunt force trauma. No statement from Sicknick that he was hit on the head, though he did text his brother that he was bear-sprayed, but was otherwise OK.

                              There is no case. You can bluster, assume, make stuff up, pretend, rationalize.... but there simply is no case.
                              "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                                It's no wonder you guys have to keep ignoring the actual FACTS, and move to conjecture and "maybe" and "might have".

                                Officer Sicknick was a trained professional paid to do the work of a Capitol Police officer, and apparently he did that well.
                                THE NEXT DAY, he has a stroke from a blood clot, having told his brother he was OK, but had been bear-sprayed.

                                And you guys keep repeating as FACT things that have already been proven false.
                                Speaking of facts, you seem to be ignoring the fact that Sicknick collapsed the night of the riot. The fact that he was kept alive with a ventilator until the next day is immaterial.

                                Comment

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