North Carolina Bathroom Bill

[Psychic Missile]

I don't think, by any stretch of the imagination, that transgender just "happens".... and I don't think it's fair to assume that a family rejects a member simply because they have gender confusion. Like any other family crisis, it evolves over time, and there are often multiple issues.

That seems fair. Why are you so convinced that gender dysphoria doesn't just happen?

[Cow Poke]

That seems fair. Why are you so convinced that gender dysphoria doesn't just happen?

What I mean is, I don't think a kid wakes up one day and says, "oh, I'm the wrong gender". I think you'd agree with that.

What you might not agree with is that I don't think this is normal in otherwise well adjusted kids. It seems this happens in kids who have lots of other 'confusion' about life.

[Bill the Cat]

Many trans people and parents of trans people report non-conforming behavior in childhood.

As do non-trans people. Heck, I loved wearing my mom's shoes when I was a little boy, but I can assure you, I have no desire to be a woman.

When and how exactly do you think these changes take place?

They were encouraged by someone.

Bill, you are talking about connectivity. I am talking about the amount of tissue. There's a difference. Neuroplasticity has limitations.

Not really. When a pathway is "deleted", according to the study I cited among others, the tissue around it shrinks.

Of course. That's how medicine works.

No it isn't. It's classified as a mental illness either way, unless you are in charge of the APA and get to change the rules and have the rest of the profession follow in lockstep...

You're not disagreeing with me. People with plastic surgery addiction or BIDD have many transitory goals. People with gender dysphoria have one goal.

Not from what I have read. People with PSA always want something else done.

[Mountain Man]

Men being given free access to women's restrooms? Come on, you intolerant bigots, what's the worst that could happen?

""

Oh...

[Psychic Missile]

As do non-trans people. Heck, I loved wearing my mom's shoes when I was a little boy, but I can assure you, I have no desire to be a woman.

It goes way beyond that. Here's the definition from the International Statistical Classification of Diseases and Related Health Problems of Childhood Gender Identity Disorder:

"A disorder, usually first manifest during early childhood (and always well before puberty), characterized by a persistent and intense distress about assigned sex, together with a desire to be (or insistence that one is) of the other sex. There is a persistent preoccupation with the dress and activities of the opposite sex and repudiation of the individual's own sex. The diagnosis requires a profound disturbance of the normal gender identity; mere tomboyishness in girls or girlish behaviour in boys is not sufficient."

They were encouraged by someone.

Just like homosexuality, GID occurs in all kinds of families, including conservative Christian ones.

Not really. When a pathway is "deleted", according to the study I cited among others, the tissue around it shrinks.

That doesn't change the fact that the amount of white matter cannot increase.

No it isn't. It's classified as a mental illness either way, unless you are in charge of the APA and get to change the rules and have the rest of the profession follow in lockstep...

Why does it matter if someone has a mental illness if there is no harm? Why do you think

Not from what I have read. People with PSA always want something else done.

That's what I'm saying. They fixate on one imperfection, get surgery, then see a new imperfection.

[Bill the Cat]

It goes way beyond that. Here's the definition from the International Statistical Classification of Diseases and Related Health Problems of Childhood Gender Identity Disorder:

"A disorder, usually first manifest during early childhood (and always well before puberty), characterized by a persistent and intense distress about assigned sex, together with a desire to be (or insistence that one is) of the other sex. There is a persistent preoccupation with the dress and activities of the opposite sex and repudiation of the individual's own sex. The diagnosis requires a profound disturbance of the normal gender identity; mere tomboyishness in girls or girlish behaviour in boys is not sufficient."

But again, there has been no "predictor" from a biological standpoint. It begins as a behavior and alters the brain accordingly, just like all behaviors do.

Just like homosexuality, GID occurs in all kinds of families, including conservative Christian ones.

And so does schizophrenia and other mental illnesses. And all should be treated as an illness, not celebrated.

That doesn't change the fact that the amount of white matter cannot increase.

Yes it can.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3201847/

And in a study of adults learning to read, the volume, anatomical organization, and functional connectivity of white matter tracts linking cortical regions important for reading were increased

Why does it matter if someone has a mental illness if there is no harm? Why do you think

Who made you the arbiter of what constitutes unacceptable harm? Is there harm in Down's Syndrome? Is there harm to anyone else in my diabetes?

That's what I'm saying. They fixate on one imperfection, get surgery, then see a new imperfection.

And that's MY point. Someone who wants to mutilate their genitals only has 1-2 operations available, and then that's it.

[Catholicity]

I don't think, by any stretch of the imagination, that transgender just "happens".... and I don't think it's fair to assume that a family rejects a member simply because they have gender confusion. Like any other family crisis, it evolves over time, and there are often multiple issues.

The one Transgender I know comes from a very broken home, has ADHD, is a recovering alcoholic and a poor relationship with their father as well as a mother who is unable to set personal boundaries with men...just to give you one example.

[Jaecp]

The one Transgender I know comes from a very broken home, has ADHD, is a recovering alcoholic and a poor relationship with their father as well as a mother who is unable to set personal boundaries with men...just to give you one example.

I know a few dozen, largely because I was in organizer for the Gender Neutral Bathroom Week event at my Uni, and they come from all kinds of backgrounds. The only thing they really had in common was a desire to use the bathroom in a way that caused the least amount of waves. There has been an incident on campus where q trans person had been challenged by people in both restrooms and ended up holding it all day. Turns out trans people get bladder cancers at significantly higher rates than we do.

[Cow Poke]

Turns out trans people get bladder cancers at significantly higher rates than we do.

That sounds like yet another reason to avoid trying to make your body conform to the confusion of your mind.

[Mountain Man]

And so does schizophrenia and other mental illnesses. And all should be treated as an illness, not celebrated.

This is the heart of the issue. Is it really an act of love to cater to the delusions of people with a physiological disorder?

[Cow Poke]

This is the heart of the issue. Is it really an act of love to cater to the delusions of people with a physiological disorder?

Especially when the "fix" can be quite expensive, extensive, and bring on a whole nuther set of problems...

[Adam]

This is the heart of the issue. Is it really an act of love to cater to the delusions of people with a physiological disorder?

I suppose you meant "psychological" not "physiological", otherwise you're giving the game away.

[seer]

That sounds like yet another reason to avoid trying to make your body conform to the confusion of your mind.

I'm a King - now give me my kingdom!

[Sparko]

I'm a King - now give me my kingdom!

Here's your throne.

033056711903.jpg

[seer]

Here's your throne.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]15206[/ATTACH]

Is that a pirate throne?