Why I am an atheist

[Secular Liberation]

Right so nothing in Atheism speaks to slavery either way.

Name on atheist slave owner.

[seer]

Name on atheist slave owner.

The atheistic hierarchy of China (past tense), North Korea, former Soviet Union, Cuba, Cambodia, etc... enslaved whole nations. But that was not the point - atheism says nothing about whether slavery is moral or immoral, you can be a good atheist and be a slave holder, or not.

[Carrikature]

Right so nothing in Atheism speaks to slavery either way.

The atheistic hierarchy of China (past tense), North Korea, former Soviet Union, Cuba, Cambodia, etc... enslaved whole nations. But that was not the point - atheism says nothing about whether slavery is moral or immoral, you can be a good atheist and be a slave holder, or not.

That's what his 'secular humanist' tag is for.

[seer]

That's what his 'secular humanist' tag is for.

That's fine, I was commenting on his point about atheism. Then the fact that he asked me to name one atheist slave owner - as if that has any relevance.

[whag]

What would constitute evidence? I've heard of plenty from people telling about stories in their lives. My brother lost his son and speaks of the ways God ministered to him (and his wife) through the Holy Spirit with what he calls small miracles. There are reports that in the heart of Islamic countries Muslims are coming to faith in Christ after receiving visions of Him. There are tons of stories of supernatural interventions.




What does an anti gay view actually look like in your view?



Christianity has done more for positive social progress than any other worldview. Wilberforce awoke the world to the horrors of the slave trade. Godless nations are not for social progress. They are for the progress of the State. Because of Christians, you have many organizations that both feed and cloth the poor. One man in Scotland (a Christian) did a "one time" thing of feeding the poor in Africa. Now his organization feeds one million a day. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TI1959D2ugk

We could fill up pages of a thread showing how Christianity, properly understood and properly applied, has done more positive for humanity than any other worldview.

Proper contextualization would require we acknowledge people like Koukl encourage extreme denial of reality (biological evolution). This to you might be okay, but to the more astute who see the whole context, this limits religion. The acceptance of that denial among the more moderates like yourself perpetuates skepticism of the whole enterprise. It's hard to ignore that childish ugly side of religion, even if its adherents hand out food and clothes. How will they teach them after they clothe them?

[Catholicity]

Proper contextualization would require we acknowledge people like Koukl encourage extreme denial of reality (biological evolution). This to you might be okay, but to the more astute who see the whole context, this limits religion. The acceptance of that denial among the more moderates like yourself perpetuates skepticism of the whole enterprise. It's hard to ignore that childish ugly side of religion, even if its adherents hand out food and clothes. How will they teach them after they clothe them?

It appears that you are ignoring perhaps a bit deliberately a crucial part of Christian teaching. Part of spreading the gospel teaching is doing good works without teaching or expecting anything in return, its merely showing love to a person or group of individuals without making the attempt to verbally evangelize. Real "agape" love as spoken of in Scripture (1 Corinthians 13) as Christians should be showing humanity, is patient, kind selfish etc. And while doing certain types of mission work or demonstrating our faith (see the book of James for teachings about faith and works) we demonstrate unselfish giving love, and that is teaching. In that respect there is nothing else to do.
Its important to distinguish that type of work with verbal teaching. Which happens but in certain contexts. There are clothing and food ministries available that have the optional "come to our church or insert here if you want to know more" and there are those which stand on the corner or in warehouses or rented or donated buildings and give teachings before handing out food or clothing. Its not childish, Its putting the tenants of a person's beliefs together. Most places are not "predatory" and those that are tend to be few and far between. To lump them all together as such shows great ignorance on your part.

[shunyadragon]

It appears that you are ignoring perhaps a bit deliberately a crucial part of Christian teaching. Part of spreading the gospel teaching is doing good works without teaching or expecting anything in return, its merely showing love to a person or group of individuals without making the attempt to verbally evangelize. Real "agape" love as spoken of in Scripture (1 Corinthians 13) as Christians should be showing humanity, is patient, kind selfish etc. And while doing certain types of mission work or demonstrating our faith (see the book of James for teachings about faith and works) we demonstrate unselfish giving love, and that is teaching. In that respect there is nothing else to do.
Its important to distinguish that type of work with verbal teaching. Which happens but in certain contexts. There are clothing and food ministries available that have the optional "come to our church or insert here if you want to know more" and there are those which stand on the corner or in warehouses or rented or donated buildings and give teachings before handing out food or clothing. Its not childish, Its putting the tenants of a person's beliefs together. Most places are not "predatory" and those that are tend to be few and far between. To lump them all together as such shows great ignorance on your part.

I disagree, i this you that is dodging the bullet of the reality of the conflicts today and in history of the problem of science and religion. Good works are nice, but they do not compensate to problems of conflicts of ancient worldviews and science.

[Catholicity]

I disagree, i this you that is dodging the bullet of the reality of the conflicts today and in history of the problem of science and religion. Good works are nice, but they do not compensate to problems of conflicts of ancient worldviews and science.

Address the post or the argument and not dodge it otherwise its a derail.

[37818]

I used to be a Christian. In another thread Papa Zoom asked why I am now an atheist. Re-posting here to continue discussion:

Basically in 20 years or so as a Christian I never saw any evidence of the supernatural or of a benevolent and interventionist deity:

Over time I gradually stopped believing in the supernatural for a variety of reasons including:
- having never witnessed any supernatural occurrences, nor ever encountered convincing evidence that one had occurred
- being unconvinced that people who claimed God had 'told' them something had actually heard from God since they regularly contradicted each other or reality about what God had told them
- being disturbed by the amount of evil and suffering in the world, and subsequently considering it highly unlikely that a benevolent and interventionist deity existed
- being unimpressed by the extent to which different Christian groups could not agree with each other on doctrine or on what the bible said, and thinking that if God existed he'd done a pretty terrible job at informing humans on theology and morality

...

Genuine Christianity is a suernatural-paranormal relationship with God. The conversion into being a Christian is a fundamental miracle in and of itself.

". . . the Gospel of Christ, for it is [the] power of God to salvation to every [one] believing, . . ." -- Romans 1:16.
". . . Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. . . ." -- 2 Corinthians 5:17.
The possesion of eternal life is to know God through the person of Jesus of Nazareth as God's Christ.
". . . this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent." -- John 17:3.
". . . He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life. . . . " --1 John 5:12.

[whag]

It appears that you are ignoring perhaps a bit deliberately a crucial part of Christian teaching. Part of spreading the gospel teaching is doing good works without teaching or expecting anything in return, its merely showing love to a person or group of individuals without making the attempt to verbally evangelize. Real "agape" love as spoken of in Scripture (1 Corinthians 13) as Christians should be showing humanity, is patient, kind selfish etc. And while doing certain types of mission work or demonstrating our faith (see the book of James for teachings about faith and works) we demonstrate unselfish giving love, and that is teaching. In that respect there is nothing else to do.

Undoubtedly there are many Christian groups that do good works without evangelizing. I'm saying there are many groups that do evangelize and sloppily, laying obstacles to growth and setting up converts for future apostasy. I'm sure we agree on that.

[Carrikature]

That's fine, I was commenting on his point about atheism. Then the fact that he asked me to name one atheist slave owner - as if that has any relevance.

Yeah, I've no idea what slave owner bit is about.

[shunyadragon]

Address the post or the argument and not dodge it otherwise its a derail.

You are the one trying to justify theism based on works.

[seer]

Yeah, I've no idea what slave owner bit is about.

Ask him...

[Secular Liberation]

The atheistic hierarchy of China (past tense), North Korea, former Soviet Union, Cuba, Cambodia, etc... enslaved whole nations. But that was not the point - atheism says nothing about whether slavery is moral or immoral, you can be a good atheist and be a slave holder, or not.

Communism was an ideology, to call it slavery whatsoever does a disservice to the millions of people in religious countries like in Africa or Haiti, sweatshops are among other things in so-called socialist societies are a product of American capitalism. As I stated in my last reply the current government of China is based on the notion that religion can benefit the socialist cause (Source:How Chinese Leaders Think), Raul Castro himself has become more Catholic over the years, and in order for slavery to exist in either of those countries the so-called slave population would have to be made illiterate, despite the fact that China and Cuba are 100% illiterate, as are most secular countries in Europe.

Atheism is a product of the enlightenment, it's origins are found in every intellectual revolution from Classical Greece to today. When society began to question it's religious institutions, the feudal systems of the western world and the religious institutions that justified the chaos.

[seer]

Communism was an ideology, to call it slavery whatsoever does a disservice to the millions of people in religious countries like in Africa or Haiti, sweatshops are among other things in so-called socialist societies are a product of American capitalism. As I stated in my last reply the current government of China is based on the notion that religion can benefit the socialist cause (Source:How Chinese Leaders Think), Raul Castro himself has become more Catholic over the years, and in order for slavery to exist in either of those countries the so-called slave population would have to be made illiterate, despite the fact that China and Cuba are 100% illiterate, as are most secular countries in Europe.

Nonsense, the fact is atheists have enslaved millions of people. Ask those who lived in East Germany. It doesn't matter what their ideology was, they were still atheists. Never mind the millions murdered by the Stalinist, Maoists, the followers of Pol Pot, etc...

Atheism is a product of the enlightenment, it's origins are found in every intellectual revolution from Classical Greece to today. When society began to question it's religious institutions, the feudal systems of the western world and the religious institutions that justified the chaos.

Again pure BS, atheism is merely the lack of belief in a god, it says nothing about how to treat your fellow man. You can be a good Communist and a good atheist - there is no conflict there.