Originally posted by seer
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Apologetics 301 Guidelines
If you think this is the area where you tell everyone you are sorry for eating their lunch out of the fridge, it probably isn't the place for you
This forum is open discussion between atheists and all theists to defend and debate their views on religion or non-religion. Please respect that this is a Christian-owned forum and refrain from gratuitous blasphemy. VERY wide leeway is given in range of expression and allowable behavior as compared to other areas of the forum, and moderation is not overly involved unless necessary. Please keep this in mind. Atheists who wish to interact with theists in a way that does not seek to undermine theistic faith may participate in the World Religions Department. Non-debate question and answers and mild and less confrontational discussions can take place in General Theistics.
Forum Rules: Here
This forum is open discussion between atheists and all theists to defend and debate their views on religion or non-religion. Please respect that this is a Christian-owned forum and refrain from gratuitous blasphemy. VERY wide leeway is given in range of expression and allowable behavior as compared to other areas of the forum, and moderation is not overly involved unless necessary. Please keep this in mind. Atheists who wish to interact with theists in a way that does not seek to undermine theistic faith may participate in the World Religions Department. Non-debate question and answers and mild and less confrontational discussions can take place in General Theistics.
Forum Rules: Here
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Why I am an atheist
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"Look at what happened after the European peoples succeeded in removing the clergy from public life and restricting them to their churches. They built up human being promoted enlightenment, creativity and rebellion. States which are based on religion confine their people in the circle of faith and fear."-Raif Badawi
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Originally posted by Secular Liberation View PostName on atheist slave owner.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by seer View PostRight so nothing in Atheism speaks to slavery either way.Originally posted by seer View PostThe atheistic hierarchy of China (past tense), North Korea, former Soviet Union, Cuba, Cambodia, etc... enslaved whole nations. But that was not the point - atheism says nothing about whether slavery is moral or immoral, you can be a good atheist and be a slave holder, or not.I'm not here anymore.
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Originally posted by Carrikature View PostThat's what his 'secular humanist' tag is for.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by Papa Zoom View PostWhat would constitute evidence? I've heard of plenty from people telling about stories in their lives. My brother lost his son and speaks of the ways God ministered to him (and his wife) through the Holy Spirit with what he calls small miracles. There are reports that in the heart of Islamic countries Muslims are coming to faith in Christ after receiving visions of Him. There are tons of stories of supernatural interventions.
What does an anti gay view actually look like in your view?
Christianity has done more for positive social progress than any other worldview. Wilberforce awoke the world to the horrors of the slave trade. Godless nations are not for social progress. They are for the progress of the State. Because of Christians, you have many organizations that both feed and cloth the poor. One man in Scotland (a Christian) did a "one time" thing of feeding the poor in Africa. Now his organization feeds one million a day. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TI1959D2ugk
We could fill up pages of a thread showing how Christianity, properly understood and properly applied, has done more positive for humanity than any other worldview.
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Originally posted by whag View PostProper contextualization would require we acknowledge people like Koukl encourage extreme denial of reality (biological evolution). This to you might be okay, but to the more astute who see the whole context, this limits religion. The acceptance of that denial among the more moderates like yourself perpetuates skepticism of the whole enterprise. It's hard to ignore that childish ugly side of religion, even if its adherents hand out food and clothes. How will they teach them after they clothe them?
Its important to distinguish that type of work with verbal teaching. Which happens but in certain contexts. There are clothing and food ministries available that have the optional "come to our church or insert here if you want to know more" and there are those which stand on the corner or in warehouses or rented or donated buildings and give teachings before handing out food or clothing. Its not childish, Its putting the tenants of a person's beliefs together. Most places are not "predatory" and those that are tend to be few and far between. To lump them all together as such shows great ignorance on your part.A happy family is but an earlier heaven.
George Bernard Shaw
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Originally posted by Catholicity View PostIt appears that you are ignoring perhaps a bit deliberately a crucial part of Christian teaching. Part of spreading the gospel teaching is doing good works without teaching or expecting anything in return, its merely showing love to a person or group of individuals without making the attempt to verbally evangelize. Real "agape" love as spoken of in Scripture (1 Corinthians 13) as Christians should be showing humanity, is patient, kind selfish etc. And while doing certain types of mission work or demonstrating our faith (see the book of James for teachings about faith and works) we demonstrate unselfish giving love, and that is teaching. In that respect there is nothing else to do.
Its important to distinguish that type of work with verbal teaching. Which happens but in certain contexts. There are clothing and food ministries available that have the optional "come to our church or insert here if you want to know more" and there are those which stand on the corner or in warehouses or rented or donated buildings and give teachings before handing out food or clothing. Its not childish, Its putting the tenants of a person's beliefs together. Most places are not "predatory" and those that are tend to be few and far between. To lump them all together as such shows great ignorance on your part.
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Originally posted by shunyadragon View PostI disagree, i this you that is dodging the bullet of the reality of the conflicts today and in history of the problem of science and religion. Good works are nice, but they do not compensate to problems of conflicts of ancient worldviews and science.A happy family is but an earlier heaven.
George Bernard Shaw
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Originally posted by Starlight View PostI used to be a Christian. In another thread Papa Zoom asked why I am now an atheist. Re-posting here to continue discussion:
Basically in 20 years or so as a Christian I never saw any evidence of the supernatural or of a benevolent and interventionist deity:Over time I gradually stopped believing in the supernatural for a variety of reasons including:
- having never witnessed any supernatural occurrences, nor ever encountered convincing evidence that one had occurred
- being unconvinced that people who claimed God had 'told' them something had actually heard from God since they regularly contradicted each other or reality about what God had told them
- being disturbed by the amount of evil and suffering in the world, and subsequently considering it highly unlikely that a benevolent and interventionist deity existed
- being unimpressed by the extent to which different Christian groups could not agree with each other on doctrine or on what the bible said, and thinking that if God existed he'd done a pretty terrible job at informing humans on theology and morality
". . . the Gospel of Christ, for it is [the] power of God to salvation to every [one] believing, . . ." -- Romans 1:16.
". . . Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. . . ." -- 2 Corinthians 5:17.
The possesion of eternal life is to know God through the person of Jesus of Nazareth as God's Christ.
". . . this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent." -- John 17:3.
". . . He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life. . . . " --1 John 5:12.. . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV
. . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV
Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV
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Originally posted by Catholicity View PostIt appears that you are ignoring perhaps a bit deliberately a crucial part of Christian teaching. Part of spreading the gospel teaching is doing good works without teaching or expecting anything in return, its merely showing love to a person or group of individuals without making the attempt to verbally evangelize. Real "agape" love as spoken of in Scripture (1 Corinthians 13) as Christians should be showing humanity, is patient, kind selfish etc. And while doing certain types of mission work or demonstrating our faith (see the book of James for teachings about faith and works) we demonstrate unselfish giving love, and that is teaching. In that respect there is nothing else to do.
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Originally posted by Carrikature View PostYeah, I've no idea what slave owner bit is about.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by seer View PostThe atheistic hierarchy of China (past tense), North Korea, former Soviet Union, Cuba, Cambodia, etc... enslaved whole nations. But that was not the point - atheism says nothing about whether slavery is moral or immoral, you can be a good atheist and be a slave holder, or not.
Atheism is a product of the enlightenment, it's origins are found in every intellectual revolution from Classical Greece to today. When society began to question it's religious institutions, the feudal systems of the western world and the religious institutions that justified the chaos."Look at what happened after the European peoples succeeded in removing the clergy from public life and restricting them to their churches. They built up human being promoted enlightenment, creativity and rebellion. States which are based on religion confine their people in the circle of faith and fear."-Raif Badawi
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Originally posted by Secular Liberation View PostCommunism was an ideology, to call it slavery whatsoever does a disservice to the millions of people in religious countries like in Africa or Haiti, sweatshops are among other things in so-called socialist societies are a product of American capitalism. As I stated in my last reply the current government of China is based on the notion that religion can benefit the socialist cause (Source:How Chinese Leaders Think), Raul Castro himself has become more Catholic over the years, and in order for slavery to exist in either of those countries the so-called slave population would have to be made illiterate, despite the fact that China and Cuba are 100% illiterate, as are most secular countries in Europe.
Atheism is a product of the enlightenment, it's origins are found in every intellectual revolution from Classical Greece to today. When society began to question it's religious institutions, the feudal systems of the western world and the religious institutions that justified the chaos.
Again pure BS, atheism is merely the lack of belief in a god, it says nothing about how to treat your fellow man. You can be a good Communist and a good atheist - there is no conflict there.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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