Originally posted by Cow Poke
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If you think this is the area where you tell everyone you are sorry for eating their lunch out of the fridge, it probably isn't the place for you
This forum is open discussion between atheists and all theists to defend and debate their views on religion or non-religion. Please respect that this is a Christian-owned forum and refrain from gratuitous blasphemy. VERY wide leeway is given in range of expression and allowable behavior as compared to other areas of the forum, and moderation is not overly involved unless necessary. Please keep this in mind. Atheists who wish to interact with theists in a way that does not seek to undermine theistic faith may participate in the World Religions Department. Non-debate question and answers and mild and less confrontational discussions can take place in General Theistics.
Forum Rules: Here
This forum is open discussion between atheists and all theists to defend and debate their views on religion or non-religion. Please respect that this is a Christian-owned forum and refrain from gratuitous blasphemy. VERY wide leeway is given in range of expression and allowable behavior as compared to other areas of the forum, and moderation is not overly involved unless necessary. Please keep this in mind. Atheists who wish to interact with theists in a way that does not seek to undermine theistic faith may participate in the World Religions Department. Non-debate question and answers and mild and less confrontational discussions can take place in General Theistics.
Forum Rules: Here
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The Lilies of the Field
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3 For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received: that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the Scriptures, 4 that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day in accordance with the Scriptures --1 Corinthians 15:3-4 (borrowed with gratitude from 37818's sig)
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"I suppose living from day to day ('take no thought for the morrow') is precisely what we have to learn - through the Old Adam in me sometimes murmurs that if God wanted me to live like the lilies of the field, I wonder He didn't give me the same lack of nerves and imagination as they enjoy! Or is that just the point, the precise purpose of this Divine paradox and audacity called Man - to do with a mind what other organisms do without it?"
-- CS Lewis
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Originally posted by whag View PostNot at all. "Don't worry like a little pansy all the time. Have some wine, if necessary. Relax." See how the point isn't even close to being missed? It's right there in the rhetorical question "Can all your worries add a single moment to your life?" But then he overdoes it with the teleological bit. The question is sufficient to make the point....>>> Witty remark or snarky quote of another poster goes here <<<...
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Originally posted by whagI wonder what Jesus would have said if someone in the crowd had said lilies aren't arrayed but naked. Moreover, re: clothing providence, I'd be more concerned about covering and warmth than being dressed gaudily like a king.
Originally posted by whagOriginally posted by Cow PokeWork like it all depends on you, pray like it all depends on God.
Originally posted by whagSometimes in illustrating overmuch, the point is diluted. Better to simply ask "Can all your worries add a single moment to your life?" rather than imply a teleological absurdity about lilies being clothed and God loving you more than botany..."Don't worry like a little pansy all the time. Have some wine, if necessary. Relax." See how the point isn't even close to being missed? It's right there in the rhetorical question "Can all your worries add a single moment to your life?" But then he overdoes it with the teleological bit. The question is sufficient to make the point...No need to hammer it home with absurdity and the obvious untruth that God will always provide clothing to human beings since he does it with flowers. I've heard pastors extrapolate wildly from this illustration.
Originally posted by whagOriginally posted by PytharchimedesAre not two sparrows sold for a penny? And not one of them will fall to the ground apart from your Father. But even the hairs of your head are all numbered. Fear not, therefore; you are of more value than many sparrows.
Yes, worry doesn't help but it's unavoidable. Faith doesn't guarantee providence, and worry tends to naturally follow when providence doesn't come.Last edited by Cornelius; 04-14-2015, 06:12 AM.
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"I suppose living from day to day ('take no thought for the morrow') is precisely what we have to learn - through the Old Adam in me sometimes murmurs that if God wanted me to live like the lilies of the field, I wonder He didn't give me the same lack of nerves and imagination as they enjoy! Or is that just the point, the precise purpose of this Divine paradox and audacity called Man - to do with a mind what other organisms do without it?"
-- CS Lewis
Amen to this. Human beings are paradoxical: they can choose to live like Buddha and the lillies--sans all desire and disappointment that inevitably comes when desire isn't quenched. Indulging in worry isn't the answer, surely, but neither is indulging in naivete and false hope. My sister occupies the latter category.
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Originally posted by whag View PostThe difference in value has no practical application to your behavior. You'll worry about your children's and your lack of shelter all the same. God's providence for sparrows doesn't make a difference when you're struggling to provide for your family.
Originally posted by whag View PostYes, worry doesn't help but it's unavoidable. Faith doesn't guarantee providence, and worry tends to naturally follow when providence doesn't come.
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Originally posted by Pytharchimedes View PostWhat is the meaning of this? Will the Father clothe me in his raiment even if I do not work?
NORMWhen the missionaries came to Africa they had the Bible and we had the land. They said 'Let us pray.' We closed our eyes. When we opened them we had the Bible and they had the land. - Bishop Desmond Tutu
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Originally posted by firstfloor View PostMy advice: Do not attribute the help you receive from your fellow men to God. It is both unnecessarily flattering to a lazy god and unappreciative of your supporters.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostThat's just dumb on so many levels. When I praise God for what He has done for me through my friends, they are blessed and rejoicing as well.Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
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I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist
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Originally posted by firstfloor View PostDo not attribute the help you receive from your fellow men to God. It is both unnecessarily flattering to a lazy god and unappreciative of your supporters.
Originally posted by firstfloor View Post“… and the life of man, solitary, poor, nasty, brutish and short.” – Hobbes.
Waterglass.jpgLast edited by Pytharchimedes; 04-21-2015, 10:48 PM.
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There was a little old lady who would come out every morning on the steps of her front porch, raise her arms to the sky and shout, "Praise the Lord!"
Well, one day an atheist moved into the house next door. Over time, he became irritated at the little old lady. So every morning he would step out onto his front porch and yell after her, "There is no God!"
Time passes with the two of them carrying on this way every day. Then one morning in the middle of winter, the little old lady stepped onto her front porch and shouted, "Praise the Lord! Lord, I have no food and I am hungry. Please provide for me, oh Lord!"
The next morning she stepped onto her porch and there were two huge bags of groceries sitting there. "Praise the Lord!" she cried out. "He has provided groceries for me!" The atheist jumped out of the hedges and shouted, "There is no Lord. I bought those groceries!" The little old lady threw her arms into the air and shouted, "Praise the Lord! He has provided me with groceries and He made the devil pay for them!"
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