Miracles

[shunyadragon]

The next word after Miracle in almost all dictionaries is Mirage.

[seer]

The next word after Miracle in almost all dictionaries is Mirage.

So?

[firstfloor]

Teen who fell in icy pond makes 'miraculous' recovery

[seer]

Of course, there is always the possibility that the media are playing with your emotions in order to get you to buy more breakfast cereal. They don’t publish stories in this format (the advertisers wouldn’t like it):

Despite strenuous efforts over many months to summon the Holy Sprit, a 7 year old girl died today after a prolonged illness. At the end, the young girl’s mother recalled saying “Dear God, please send your Holy Spirit to save my daughter.” And they hadn't been getting a pulse at that time, then all of a sudden I heard them saying, “I’m sorry, there’s nothing else we can do.”

Doctors said that if the Holy Spirit had come when called, they would have been able to save the child. Doctor Sutterer said that probably the girl or the girl’s mother must have been praying to the wrong God or attending the wrong church.

Say what you want FF, you have two medical doctors quoted calling this a miracle. They were there you were not. They have expertize in the medical field you do not.

[shunyadragon]

Say what you want FF, you have two medical doctors quoted calling this a miracle. They were there you were not. They have expertize in the medical field you do not.

There have been many other near death occurrences of people, particularly children, exposed to extreme cold. Are you aware of this? The possibility cannot be excluded that this occurrence does not have a natural explanation.

[NormATive]

the fact that you just focused on that, ignored the rest of his post, and even admitted that's all you got from it is evidence you're not truly here to interact but rather just to try to plow through the weakest points you can.

If you say so.

NORM

[MaxVel]

Max's mention of the hospital worker's employment was not a good argument IMO, but it was just a throwaway line in a much longer post; he even admitted he was just speculating there. It was not at all the main part of his post. Norm, the fact that you just focused on that, ignored the rest of his post, and even admitted that's all you got from it is evidence you're not truly here to interact but rather just to try to plow through the weakest points you can.

[MaxVel]

It's not me that has the problem. Your particular faith has the worst possible response to it.



Thanks. She was a good woman taken from life way too early.



Yup.

NORM

How about starting a thread on why Christianity has "...the worst possible response..." to the PoE?

I'd like to see your explanation, and what you think is a better response.

[NormATive]

How about starting a thread on why Christianity has "...the worst possible response..." to the PoE?

No thanks. That horse has been beaten to death.

I'd like to see your explanation, and what you think is a better response.

Stuff happens. Care for one another in the best way you know how. That's it.

NORM

[MaxVel]

This is special pleading, there’s no double standard.

So you agree that Enjolras can base a general skepticism against miracles on things like human fallibility, confirmation bias, wanting to fit in, and yet not apply that same general skepticism of human nature to claims in areas that he feels comfortable with?

Good for you.

What is the evidence, other than their say-so that a miracle occurred?

Address the hypothetical please. The question is not 'Is it irrational for othersto believe?'.

There is no credible evidence to support rational belief in God that I'm aware of. Please explain.

1. You have a number of fallacious approaches to considering evidence and argumentation. You prefer to avoid addressing actual arguments and evidence, resorting to disqualifying the because of who makes them.

2. You seemingly have a dislike of Christianity that goes beyond 'I just don't think it's true'. You're biased against Christianity and you don't take that enough into account in your evaluation of evidence for it.

3. You insist on using 'escape-hatch' words like "credible", "substantiated", "verifiable", these words either have enough flexibility in their meaning that you can always say that your criteria hasn't been met; or they are subjective enough that you can easily move the goalposts to avoid accepting something as evidence.

4. You're probably not as smart or as rational as you think you are. Pretty much no-one is (myself included), so don't get upset.

[MaxVel]

No thanks. That horse has been beaten to death.

All puff and no substance, huh?

Stuff happens. Care for one another in the best way you know how. That's it.

NORM

So, there is no PoE, then. Why did you get so upset about your mother, if Christianity's answer is to a problem that doesn't even exist?

[Enjolras]

So you agree that Enjolras can base a general skepticism against miracles on things like human fallibility, confirmation bias, wanting to fit in, and yet not apply that same general skepticism of human nature to claims in areas that he feels comfortable with?

Good for you.

You misrepresent my position. One should apply skepticism equally to all areas of understanding, with extraordinary claims requiring extraordinary evidence.

[Enjolras]

All puff and no substance, huh?





So, there is no PoE, then. Why did you get so upset about your mother, if Christianity's answer is to a problem that doesn't even exist?

You don't seem to understand. Theodicies are only necessary when there is a theos involved.

[Adrift]

So, there is no PoE, then. Why did you get so upset about your mother, if Christianity's answer is to a problem that doesn't even exist?

This post reminded me of that CS Lewis quote from Mere Christianity,

Source: C.S. Lewis

My argument against God was that the universe seemed so cruel and unjust. But how had I got this idea of just and unjust? A man does not call a line crooked unless he has some idea of a straight line. What was I com*paring this universe with when I called it unjust? If the whole show was bad and senseless from A to Z, so to speak, why did I, who was supposed to be part of the show, find myself in such violent reaction against it? A man feels wet when he falls into water, because man is not a water animal: A fish would not feel wet. Of course I could have given up my idea of justice by saying it was nothing but a private idea of my own. But if I did that, then my argument against God collapsed too—for the argument depended on saying that the world was really unjust, not simply that it did not happen to please my private fancies. Thus in the very act of trying to prove that God did not exist—in other words, that the whole of reality was senseless—I found I was forced to assume that one part of reality—namely my idea of justice—was full of sense. Consequently atheism turns out to be too simple. If the whole universe has no meaning, we should never have found out that it has no meaning: Just as, if there were no light in the uni*verse and therefore no creatures with eyes, we should never know it was dark. Dark would be without meaning.

© Copyright Original Source

[seer]

There have been many other near death occurrences of people, particularly children, exposed to extreme cold. Are you aware of this? The possibility cannot be excluded that this occurrence does not have a natural explanation.

Except, you do not know the exact conditions of this particular event. I'm sure the two medical doctors involved understand the possibilities you mentioned yet they had no problem calling this event miraculous. To quote "a bonafide miracle."