Originally posted by 37818
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This forum is open discussion between atheists and all theists to defend and debate their views on religion or non-religion. Please respect that this is a Christian-owned forum and refrain from gratuitous blasphemy. VERY wide leeway is given in range of expression and allowable behavior as compared to other areas of the forum, and moderation is not overly involved unless necessary. Please keep this in mind. Atheists who wish to interact with theists in a way that does not seek to undermine theistic faith may participate in the World Religions Department. Non-debate question and answers and mild and less confrontational discussions can take place in General Theistics.
Forum Rules: Here
This forum is open discussion between atheists and all theists to defend and debate their views on religion or non-religion. Please respect that this is a Christian-owned forum and refrain from gratuitous blasphemy. VERY wide leeway is given in range of expression and allowable behavior as compared to other areas of the forum, and moderation is not overly involved unless necessary. Please keep this in mind. Atheists who wish to interact with theists in a way that does not seek to undermine theistic faith may participate in the World Religions Department. Non-debate question and answers and mild and less confrontational discussions can take place in General Theistics.
Forum Rules: Here
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Why I'm not an atheist
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Originally posted by shunyadragon View PostAs I believe? You need to better than that. I present my case by actual citations of metacrock's posts, and not what I believe. I am still waiting for coherent rational rebuttal why these are not logical fallacies, but substantial coherent responses do not appear to be forthcoming.. . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV
. . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV
Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV
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Originally posted by Sparko View PostNot mine?Actually YOU put Trump in the White House. He wouldn't have gotten 1% of the vote if it wasn't for the widespread spiritual and cultural devastation caused by progressive policies. There's no "this country" left with your immigration policies, your "allies" are worthless and even more suicidal than you are and democracy is a sick joke that I hope nobody ever thinks about repeating when the current order collapses. - Darth_Executor striking a conciliatory note in Civics 101
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Originally posted by Trout View PostHowever, perhaps God reveals himself to those he chooses? Not that we're positioned in this thread to talk coherently about the Bible, but I have to think that he revealed himself to only a tiny fraction of the population biblically speaking, perhaps a smaller percentage than he does today?I'm not here anymore.
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Originally posted by Carrikature View PostI could accept the idea of an elect of which I'm not counted, but I don't understand why I would be excluded.Though it may be that God reveals himself more fully to those He knows will respond positively.
Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by seer View PostYou smell funny?Though it may be that God reveals himself more fully to those He knows will respond positively.
Far better, and more honest (imo), to not attempt a rationalization.I'm not here anymore.
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Originally posted by Carrikature View PostThis is a common enough answer. I find it to be utter rubbish. God can show you what you need to convert, but he won't show me what I need to convert? "But free will!" the Christian says, to which I'll point out that if free will isn't violated by your experience, it won't be by mine.
Far better, and more honest (imo), to not attempt a rationalization.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by Carrikature View PostThis is a common enough answer. I find it to be utter rubbish. God can show you what you need to convert, but he won't show me what I need to convert? "But free will!" the Christian says, to which I'll point out that if free will isn't violated by your experience, it won't be by mine.
Far better, and more honest (imo), to not attempt a rationalization.. . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV
. . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV
Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV
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Originally posted by Carrikature View PostThis is a common enough answer. I find it to be utter rubbish. God can show you what you need to convert, but he won't show me what I need to convert? "But free will!" the Christian says, to which I'll point out that if free will isn't violated by your experience, it won't be by mine.
Far better, and more honest (imo), to not attempt a rationalization.
Do you WANT to believe in God? Or do you want to believe there is no God?
Not asking what you DO believe about God, but what you want to believe? Do you think the universe is better with a God or without?
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Originally posted by Sparko View PostHe still might. I didn't become a Christian until I was almost 40 years old.
Do you WANT to believe in God? Or do you want to believe there is no God?
Not asking what you DO believe about God, but what you want to believe? Do you think the universe is better with a God or without?
From the atheist perspective 'God' is undefined and even if the atheist acquiesces to your particular definition the question is overloaded with the baggage of two thousand years of utter foolishness. The thinking goes like this: If I do believe in 'God' I will get sucked into an entirely ridiculous world view wherein I either end up kissing the pope's ring finger for my salvation or decrying the pope as antichrist while I protest the funerals of homosexuals.
The baggage of Christianity alone is enough to make the question "Do you believe in God?" a horrifying consideration.
I think legalistic Christians and atheists (in fact, all people) have basically the same problem.
They all have to be willing to set the ego down long enough for God to reveal Himself as He exists.
I think that approach fosters curiosity and humility.Actually YOU put Trump in the White House. He wouldn't have gotten 1% of the vote if it wasn't for the widespread spiritual and cultural devastation caused by progressive policies. There's no "this country" left with your immigration policies, your "allies" are worthless and even more suicidal than you are and democracy is a sick joke that I hope nobody ever thinks about repeating when the current order collapses. - Darth_Executor striking a conciliatory note in Civics 101
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Originally posted by Meh Gerbil View PostFor right or for wrong I've a tendency to shy away from these sorts of questions.
From the atheist perspective 'God' is undefined and even if the atheist acquiesces to your particular definition the question is overloaded with the baggage of two thousand years of utter foolishness. The thinking goes like this: If I do believe in 'God' I will get sucked into an entirely ridiculous world view wherein I either end up kissing the pope's ring finger for my salvation or decrying the pope as antichrist while I protest the funerals of homosexuals.
The baggage of Christianity alone is enough to make the question "Do you believe in God?" a horrifying consideration.
I think legalistic Christians and atheists (in fact, all people) have basically the same problem.
They all have to be willing to set the ego down long enough for God to reveal Himself as He exists.
I think that approach fosters curiosity and humility.
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Originally posted by Sparko View PostWell even if your thinking is what is going through Car's brain, it answers my question. If someone doesn't WANT to believe in God, then they won't. They will do everything in their power to avoid "getting sucked in" - and therefore they can't expect God to knock on their door and say "here I am" because even if he did, they would turn away and deny it happened. You first have to be open to the idea of God before you can recognize any calling by Him. If you unplug your phone, you aren't going to get any calls.
I cannot say who has the correct view on this issue, again, as I usually do on this forum I'm just spit ballin'.
Key verses for me are '[you] are dead in your sins' and '[you] are slaves to sin'.
It seems to me the atheist may not have the ability to open himself up to anything.
To my way of thinking 'It is too painful, too uncertain, too weird to believe in God' seems less arrogant than 'I mustered enough strength to open myself up to God and give the ole' boy a fair shot'.
As for the sucked in comment all I was suggesting there was that 'Do you believe in God?' is question that carries the weight of more than simply acknowledging a God exists - the implications are enormous. For many atheists answering that question in the affirmative means utterly abandoning logic and science because, let's be honest, in America we have some truly nutty believers and they make belief in God look like a renunciation of one's brain.Actually YOU put Trump in the White House. He wouldn't have gotten 1% of the vote if it wasn't for the widespread spiritual and cultural devastation caused by progressive policies. There's no "this country" left with your immigration policies, your "allies" are worthless and even more suicidal than you are and democracy is a sick joke that I hope nobody ever thinks about repeating when the current order collapses. - Darth_Executor striking a conciliatory note in Civics 101
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Originally posted by Meh Gerbil View PostHow do you square this with Paul's conversion?
I cannot say who has the correct view on this issue, again, as I usually do on this forum I'm just spit ballin'.
Key verses for me are '[you] are dead in your sins' and '[you] are slaves to sin'.
It seems to me the atheist may not have the ability to open himself up to anything.
To my way of thinking 'It is too painful, too uncertain, too weird to believe in God' seems less arrogant than 'I mustered enough strength to open myself up to God and give the ole' boy a fair shot'.
As for the sucked in comment all I was suggesting there was that 'Do you believe in God?' is question that carries the weight of more than simply acknowledging a God exists - the implications are enormous. For many atheists answering that question in the affirmative means utterly abandoning logic and science because, let's be honest, in America we have some truly nutty believers and they make belief in God look like a renunciation of one's brain.
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Originally posted by seer View PostYes and that is your opinion. How do you know you would not find God repulsive? What you need for conversion is Him - and that is the very thing that you may reject. Which would cause you greater condemnation. Having said that - your life if not over, you still have hope.I'm not here anymore.
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Originally posted by Carrikature View PostIf he's anything like what he's claimed to be, I have no idea why anyone would find him repulsive.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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