Why I'm not an atheist

[firstfloor]

FF, that does not change anything I said about logically justifying our experience of the external world. And if you don't like zombies you can use sociopaths like I mentioned earlier.

And if you don't like Zombies try the bat: http://organizations.utep.edu/Portal.../nagel_bat.pdf

Nagel argues that the inner experience of a brain is truly knowable only to that brain. He goes for a very extreme position (truly) but in practice it is not the stumbling block you suppose because brains, particularly brains like your own can be interrogated in great detail because they are programmed with a common language and they share the world with other brains. A bat brain cannot be interrogated in the same way.

http://chronicle.com/article/Where-T...-Wrong/139129/

[Sea of red]

That's the $64 question.

It seems that some are born with an apriori knowledge of the existence of the Divine.

Some become believers from a near death event.

Some become believers after a miraculous happening

Some become believers after they receive some kind of communication from God.

Some become believers after an answered prayer.

I'm sure there are many other ways to come to theism.

The bottom line seems to be some kind of missing puzzle piece that suddenly or slowly appears.

Does that make any sense?

Then it sounds like it's completely out of an individuals hands as to whether he is 'saved' or not. If we are not all given the same evidence then that's Gods fault, not the human race. As Steven Weinberg once said: "if there is a God, he has gone to great pains to hide himself, and the one truth".

What you described are anecdotes that are not very useful to someone trying to seek knowledge of God. If God wants people to know him, then maybe he should make himself more apparent to the world - and not just a select group. He could settle so much if he'd just reveal himself to us like he did to all of the figures in the Bible.

[Sea of red]

I still remember the fun we three had during the tweb banning auction over at Reggie's forum. I notice it closed down shortly after that.

Yeah, I used to be a member of IG and it's cousin forum AtheistForums. The threads by Trout and Gerbil are actually what brought me here

[Trout]

Then it sounds like it's completely out of an individuals hands as to whether he is 'saved' or not. If we are not all given the same evidence then that's Gods fault, not the human race. As Steven Weinberg once said: "if there is a God, he has gone to great pains to hide himself, and the one truth".

I couldn't agree more.

My father was an atheist, quite vociferous and opinionated. He would sit us down and have us watch Cosmos as Carl Sagan narrated. It was like church. He saw God in absolutely nothing.

He had an experience with God at some point, which he is still quite private about, that changed him. Now he sees God in everything.

So it seems, God hides in plain sight.

What you described are anecdotes that are not very useful to someone trying to seek knowledge of God. If God wants people to know him, then maybe he should make himself more apparent to the world - and not just a select group. He could settle so much if he'd just reveal himself to us like he did to all of the figures in the Bible.

Also good points.

However, perhaps God reveals himself to those he chooses? Not that we're positioned in this thread to talk coherently about the Bible, but I have to think that he revealed himself to only a tiny fraction of the population biblically speaking, perhaps a smaller percentage than he does today?

[37818]

Up until this point I'd taken your designation as 'Nontraditional' with a side of lemon butter.

Aside from the fact that God cannot cease from being God. The only way there would be no God is if God was not God.

To be an atheist, knowing what God is, without being a pantheist, would have to deny existence itself. God being essentially the uncaused existence behind all things that exist. To say God does not exist, with that understanding of who and what God is, is no different than if to say there is no existence. All caused existences are contingent on the uncaused existence Who is God.

[shunyadragon]

Aside from the fact that God cannot cease from being God.

Anecdotal assertion! IF a Source some call God(s) exists.

The only way there would be no God is if God was not God.

Yes, it is a possibility that 'not God' is true.

To be an atheist, knowing what God is, without being a pantheist, . . .

Pantheism is another word for atheism describing the universe as God.

. . . would have to deny existence itself. God being essentially the uncaused existence behind all things that exist. To say God does not exist, with that understanding of who and what God is, is no different than if to say there is no existence. All caused existences are contingent on the uncaused existence Who is God.

Your biting yourself in the butt again 'begging the questions . . ., 'God exists because God exists.'

[Juvenal]

Its taoist's fault.

I'm not going to feed your amen jones, but yes, I did see what you did there.

[Trout]

I'm not going to feed your amen jones, but yes, I did see what you did there.

Potty mouth

[Trout]

Aside from the fact that God cannot cease from being God. The only way there would be no God is if God was not God.

To be an atheist, knowing what God is, without being a pantheist, would have to deny existence itself. God being essentially the uncaused existence behind all things that exist. To say God does not exist, with that understanding of who and what God is, is no different than if to say there is no existence. All caused existences are contingent on the uncaused existence Who is God.

Posts like this one make me want to be an atheist

[37818]

There is an uncaused existence.

If that is not God, of course there is none.

I'll explain this again in some other words. If there is no God and I believe in this non existent God. When I'm dead it is not likely I will know that I was wrong. On the other hand, if the uncaused existence is God, as I believe His Name means the Self-Existent, and should I not believe in Him, then I would be toast, as a matter of speaking, and know this for all eternity. And I would not be in a position to warn anyone.

[37818]

Aside from the fact that God cannot cease from being God. The only way there would be no God is if God was not God.

To be an atheist, knowing what God is, without being a pantheist, would have to deny existence itself. God being essentially the uncaused existence behind all things that exist. To say God does not exist, with that understanding of who and what God is, is no different than if to say there is no existence. All caused existences are contingent on the uncaused existence Who is God.

Posts like this one make me want to be an atheist

Why? And how is it you remain a Christian?

[shunyadragon]

Why? And how is it you remain a Christian?

Not with contorted circular logic. You remain what you believe by faith, and not self-justified misuse of logic.

[Teallaura]

Because I'm pretty sure God exists.

Just pretty sure? I know God exists.




Not so sure about Canada, however...

[37818]

Not with contorted circular logic. You remain what you believe by faith, and not self-justified misuse of logic.

And this is as you believe.

[Sparko]

Yeah, I used to be a member of IG and it's cousin forum AtheistForums. The threads by Trout and Gerbil are actually what brought me here

Not mine?