Is ordination of women to be Pastors [Overseer/Bishop] orthodox?

[Teallaura]

Did not.



Well, if anybody was posting a position that women should never be leaders, you MIGHT have a point!

(it's alright folks - she's my brother! )

I am not! I am a G-I-R-L! I cannot be a brother.

Face it, you've got a sister.

[Cow Poke]

I am not! I am a G-I-R-L! I cannot be a brother.

Face it, you've got a sister.

Yeah, Bro -- whatever you say.

[Teallaura]

Yeah, Bro -- whatever you say.

C'mere...

[Littlejoe]

If I wasn't clear I was trying to convey that this isn't some new movement within the A/G, since 1935 we've ordained women.

I found a link where the A/G General Superintendent George O. Wood talked about the SBC position on female ordination and I think it's interesting. http://enrichmentjournal.ag.org/2001..._exploring.cfm

While it is absolutely true that we (I'm A/G as well you know...) have been ordaining women for a long time...most of them end up as missionaries. It's extremely rare, even today, to find a female senior/head or sole pastor of an A/G church.

ETA, that's a great article btw!

[Cow Poke]

C'mere...

Nope. Every time you say that, I wake up next week.

[Truthseeker]

It is, however, good supporting evidence. A judge of Israel is unquestionably a leadership role - which brings into question the conclusion that women should never be leaders.

Hmmm . . . is Judge Judy (on the tv) a leader, then? I think the ancient Israeli judge performed quite like Judge Judy.

[Jesse]

Hmmm . . . is Judge Judy (on the tv) a leader, then? I think the ancient Israeli judge performed quite like Judge Judy.

I don't think Judge Judy ever commanded an army though. So yeah, not the same.

[Paprika]

OK, going to bring up a very sensitive issue regarding this, and I'd appreciate everybody responding in an appropriate Christian manner.

ONE of the concerns - often unspoken - of conservative Christian leaders regarding female pastors is that it seems to be tied - either purposely or coincidentally - with the push to accept gay / lesbian lifestyles in the leadership of the Church.

Short answer: eisegetical gymnastics to insert one contemporary ideology is good practice for insertions of other ideologies.

Most people who support women's ordination don't do so because Scripture allows it, but because in this modern day and age we have been Enlightened by egalitarianism. The motivation is not primarily to follow Scripture but to harmonise Scripture with the contemporary cultural norms; so as with feminism, also LGBT normalisation.

[Paprika]

Um, Deborah went on a campaign with Barak.

Deborah wasn't supposed to go, and Barak was punished for asking her to do so.

[Teallaura]

Nope. Every time you say that, I wake up next week.

You said 'whatever you say' and I said 'c'mere' so do like you promised and c'mere!

[Teallaura]

Deborah wasn't supposed to go, and Barak was punished for asking her to do so.

Granted (caveat - Barak insisted she go along, he didn't merely ask) but there's not a lot in Scripture that outlines what responsibilities a judge of Israel should have beyond settling disputes. There's nothing explicit that requires a judge also be general so the whole point was off, anyway.

[phat8594]

I think the biggest problem - and obstacle - is that too many people get 'ordination of women' and 'women's rights' confused. NO ONE - male or female - has a right to be ordained. Ordination is a calling, privilege, duty and ministry - it is not a right. Whether or not a woman may be ordained rests entirely in whether or not God, via Scripture, says so. In my opinion, Scripture supports female ordination. I know I haven't seriously engaged CP on this one - time being what it is and my present state of mind, I don't want to argue this too strongly - but the only passage that is truly problematic is the one in Timothy - and I think the case that Paul is referring to a specific person, not a general rule, is reasonable. On the whole, Scripture is incredibly egalitarian where women are concerned - it is strange to assume that it shifts direction on this one point.

But that is a long, painstaking argument and I'm not up for it right now. Maybe later this year.

Did we debate the Timothy passage back on the old TWeb? For some reason I think we might have.

I agree that the Timothy passage is the most 'problematic' for full blown female led churches. That being said, there is also evidence that women did occupy positions of leadership in the early church. It is interesting to see where each church draws the lines...

e.g.

no female leadership, some female leadership, total female leadership...

[Teallaura]

Did we debate the Timothy passage back on the old TWeb? For some reason I think we might have.

I agree that the Timothy passage is the most 'problematic' for full blown female led churches. That being said, there is also evidence that women did occupy positions of leadership in the early church. It is interesting to see where each church draws the lines...

e.g.

no female leadership, some female leadership, total female leadership...

I don't recall debating it.

[Cow Poke]

Granted (caveat - Barak insisted she go along, he didn't merely ask) but there's not a lot in Scripture that outlines what responsibilities a judge of Israel should have beyond settling disputes. There's nothing explicit that requires a judge also be general so the whole point was off, anyway.

All five of the other Judges led military campaigns.

[robrecht]

... I agree that the Timothy passage is the most 'problematic' for full blown female led churches. ...

I don't find it that problematic. Aside from the general cultural parameters of the author and communities of the time, the emphasis in the Greek word order indicates that the intent was to eliminate polygamy among episcopoi, who are indeed being thought of as male, but not to emphasize male sex as opposed to female sex with respect to eligibility. Polygamy was a practice among some upper classes, but polyandry was not an issue.