Originally posted by footwasher
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This is the forum to discuss the spectrum of views within Christianity on God's foreknowledge and election such as Calvinism, Arminianism, Molinism, Open Theism, Process Theism, Restrictivism, and Inclusivism, Christian Universalism and what these all are about anyway. Who is saved and when is/was their salvation certain? How does God exercise His sovereignty and how powerful is He? Is God timeless and immutable? Does a triune God help better understand God's love for mankind?
While this area is for the discussion of these doctrines within historic Christianity, all theists interested in discussing these areas within the presuppositions of and respect for the Christian framework are welcome to participate here. This is not the area for debate between nontheists and theists, additionally, there may be some topics that within the Moderator's discretion fall so outside the bounds of mainstream evangelical doctrine that may be more appropriately placed within Comparative Religions 101 Nontheists seeking only theistic participation only in a manner that does not seek to undermine the faith of others are also welcome - but we ask that Moderator approval be obtained beforehand.
Atheists are welcome to discuss and debate these issues in the Apologetics 301 or General Theistics 101 forum without such restrictions. Theists who wish to discuss these issues outside the parameters of orthodox Christian doctrine are invited to Unorthodox Theology 201.
Remember, our forum rules apply here as well. If you haven't read them now would be a good time.
Forum Rules: Here
While this area is for the discussion of these doctrines within historic Christianity, all theists interested in discussing these areas within the presuppositions of and respect for the Christian framework are welcome to participate here. This is not the area for debate between nontheists and theists, additionally, there may be some topics that within the Moderator's discretion fall so outside the bounds of mainstream evangelical doctrine that may be more appropriately placed within Comparative Religions 101 Nontheists seeking only theistic participation only in a manner that does not seek to undermine the faith of others are also welcome - but we ask that Moderator approval be obtained beforehand.
Atheists are welcome to discuss and debate these issues in the Apologetics 301 or General Theistics 101 forum without such restrictions. Theists who wish to discuss these issues outside the parameters of orthodox Christian doctrine are invited to Unorthodox Theology 201.
Remember, our forum rules apply here as well. If you haven't read them now would be a good time.
Forum Rules: Here
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Cornelius and Total Depravity
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Originally posted by footwasher View Post
Okay, here is Scripture support for my statement that God reaches out to ALL people:
Acts 17:24“The God who made the world and all things in it, since He is Lord of heaven and earth, does not dwell in temples made with hands; 25nor is He served by human hands, as though He needed anything, since He Himself gives to all people life and breath and all things; 26and He made from one man every nation of mankind to live on all the face of the earth, having determined their appointed times and the boundaries of their habitation, 27that they would seek God, if perhaps they might grope for Him and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us; 28for in Him we live and move and exist, as even some of your own poets have said, ‘For we also are His children.’
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Originally posted by brightfame52 View Post
Yes faith is the fruit of the Spirit Gal 5 22 A Spiritually dead in sin person cannot hear Spiritually.
Now, find me a Scripture that explicitly says Saving Faith is a Fruit of the Spirit."What has the Church gained if it is popular, but there is no conviction, no repentance, no power?" - A.W. Tozer
"... there are two parties in Washington, the stupid party and the evil party, who occasionally get together and do something both stupid and evil, and this is called bipartisanship." - Everett Dirksen
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Originally posted by Littlejoe View Post
Nope! Try again. Gal 5 is written to the elect and is not about Salvation therefore, the Faithfulness it's talking about isn't about Saving Faith...
Now, find me a Scripture that explicitly says Saving Faith is a Fruit of the Spirit.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Littlejoe View Post
Nope! Try again. Gal 5 is written to the elect and is not about Salvation therefore, the Faithfulness it's talking about isn't about Saving Faith...
Now, find me a Scripture that explicitly says Saving Faith is a Fruit of the Spirit.
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Originally posted by Dave L View Post
This is not about salvation. Why? “And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.” John 3:19 (KJV 1900)
Well they aren't seeking God for toilet rolls, even though that was recently in short supply:
Acts 1727that they would seek God, if perhaps they might grope for Him and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us;
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Originally posted by brightfame52 View Post
Thats about the elect, the Sheep !
Then apply it here:
Acts 17:25nor is He served by human hands, as though He needed anything, since He Himself gives to all people life and breath and all things; 26and He made from one man every nation of mankind to live on all the face of the earth, having determined their appointed times and the boundaries of their habitation,
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Only the elect seek the true God. The rest seek idols. Why didn't Jesus pray for all but the elect only if you have a grasp on this? “I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.” John 17:9 (KJV 1900)
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Originally posted by Littlejoe View Post
Nope! Try again. Gal 5 is written to the elect and is not about Salvation therefore, the Faithfulness it's talking about isn't about Saving Faith...
Now, find me a Scripture that explicitly says Saving Faith is a Fruit of the Spirit.
“Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.” Hebrews 12:2 (KJV 1900)
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Originally posted by footwasher View Post
Read up about Hebrew synthetic parallelism.
Then apply it here:
Acts 17:25nor is He served by human hands, as though He needed anything, since He Himself gives to all people life and breath and all things; 26and He made from one man every nation of mankind to live on all the face of the earth, having determined their appointed times and the boundaries of their habitation,
51 And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation;
52 And not for that nation only, but that also he should gather together in one the children of God that were scattered abroad.
Now the word children here teknon means among other things, offspring offspring, children
Now if you read in the context of Acts 17:29
29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.
So I believe Paul knew that some of these pagans were born of God, and were Gods Spiritual children. And as a result some of them believed Acts 17:34
34 Howbeit certain men clave unto him, and believed: among the which was Dionysius the Areopagite, and a woman named Damaris, and others with them.
Those belonged to the offspring of God ! His Sheep. Acts 13:48
48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.
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Originally posted by brightfame52 View Post
That scripture refers to the Children of God/elect scattered throughout the world Jn 11:51-52
51 And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation;
52 And not for that nation only, but that also he should gather together in one the children of God that were scattered abroad.
Now the word children here teknon means among other things, offspring offspring, children
Now if you read in the context of Acts 17:29
29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.
So I believe Paul knew that some of these pagans were born of God, and were Gods Spiritual children. And as a result some of them believed Acts 17:34
34 Howbeit certain men clave unto him, and believed: among the which was Dionysius the Areopagite, and a woman named Damaris, and others with them.
Those belonged to the offspring of God ! His Sheep. Acts 13:48
48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.
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Originally posted by brightfame52 View Post
That scripture refers to the Children of God/elect scattered throughout the world Jn 11:51-52
51 And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation;
52 And not for that nation only, but that also he should gather together in one the children of God that were scattered abroad.
Now the word children here teknon means among other things, offspring offspring, children
Now if you read in the context of Acts 17:29
29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.
So I believe Paul knew that some of these pagans were born of God, and were Gods Spiritual children. And as a result some of them believed Acts 17:34
34 Howbeit certain men clave unto him, and believed: among the which was Dionysius the Areopagite, and a woman named Damaris, and others with them.
Those belonged to the offspring of God ! His Sheep. Acts 13:48
48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.
Synthetic parallelism involves the completion or expansion of the idea of the first part in the second part.
So in this case:
Acts 17:25nor is He served by human hands, as though He needed anything, since He Himself gives to all people life and breath and all things; 26and He made from one man every nation of mankind to live on all the face of the earth, having determined their appointed times and the boundaries of their habitation,
In other words, the ALL people of v25 is also the every nation of mankind of v26
In other words, God wishes ALL people to seek Him, not just the Elect.
Your discussion style is pretty good, by the way! Praise the Lord!
Last edited by footwasher; 01-01-2021, 09:55 AM.
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Originally posted by Rushing Jaws View PostIOW human nature before justification is not valueless trash - God does not make trash;
The “God don’t make trash” half-truth is a denial of the basic Christian doctrine that we have all been trashed by the fall. If the work of a great artist were vandalized, it would be honoring to him to say you still see traces of beauty in it, but he would be grossly insulted if anyone thought his vandalized work was what he intended and a true reflection of his artistry. Grantley Morris~
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Originally posted by footwasher View Post
But synthetic parallelism states that:
Synthetic parallelism involves the completion or expansion of the idea of the first part in the second part.
So in this case:
Acts 17:25nor is He served by human hands, as though He needed anything, since He Himself gives to all people life and breath and all things; 26and He made from one man every nation of mankind to live on all the face of the earth, having determined their appointed times and the boundaries of their habitation,
In other words, the ALL people of v25 is also the every nation of mankind of v26
In other words, God wishes ALL people to seek Him, not just the Elect.
Your discussion style is pretty good, by the way! Praise the Lord!
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Originally posted by Dave L View Post
If God wanted to save all, he would. (With God all things are possible). But you are not balancing your claims against the scriptures that say otherwise.
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