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Cornelius and Total Depravity

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  • Originally posted by Dave L View Post

    Cornelius was born again before he heard Peter preach. Had he not been, his works would have been as filthy rags. And he would not have believed Peter.
    So is the Holy Spirit given after being regenerated or before?

    Write down the sequence.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by footwasher View Post

      So is the Holy Spirit given after being regenerated or before?

      Write down the sequence.
      In the OT the Holy Spirit was with people (and in the Prophets). The new birth consisted of the dead human spirit made alive so the saved could understand the things of God. At Pentecost, the indwelling Holy Spirit and the new birth became one. Born again Jews also received the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Dave L View Post

        In the OT the Holy Spirit was with people (and in the Prophets). The new birth consisted of the dead human spirit made alive so the saved could understand the things of God. At Pentecost, the indwelling Holy Spirit and the new birth became one. Born again Jews also received the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.
        After Jesus was resurrected and still on the earth, he breathed on his disciples and said receive the Holy Spirit.

        John 20:22:
        And having said this, He breathed on them and said to them, Receive the Holy Spirit!

        This was a salvation receiving of the Holy Spirit, Jesus having died, been buried and raised the third day. Believing in these facts as a requirement for salvation.

        When Jesus ascended back to heaven he told the disciples to wait to receive power from above.

        Acts 1:4-5
        4 And while being in their company and eating with them, He commanded them not to leave Jerusalem but to wait for what the Father had promised, Of which [He said] you have heard Me speak.

        5 For John baptized with water, but not many days from now you shall be baptized with ([a]placed in, introduced into) the Holy Spirit.

        The baptism of the Holy Spirit was needed to preach the Gospel with power.

        The receiving of the Holy Spirit for salvation is one thing. The baptism of the Holy Spirit is an extra, separate event.

        Acts 2:4
        4
        And they were all filled (diffused throughout their souls) with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other (different, foreign) languages (tongues), as the Spirit [a]kept giving them clear and loud expression [in each tongue in appropriate words].

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Dave L View Post
          In the OT the Holy Spirit was with people (and in the Prophets).

          The new birth consisted of the dead human spirit made alive so the saved could understand the things of God.
          But the text says the people heard (understood) and believed, resulting in receiving the Holy Spirit, which was the reward for believing, because it built up the faith, created a trust in God, by giving revelation that God always saved. That's why Paul reminded the believers in Acts 19 that John ordered his disciples to BELIEVE Jesus's words, to get the Holy Spirit. The text equates miracles (like God feeding in the desert) to His trust creating works through the Holy Spirit.


          Gal 3:2I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by works of the law, or by understanding and believing?

          3Are you so foolish? After starting in the Spirit, are you now finishing in the flesh? 4Have you suffered so much for nothing, if it really was for nothing? 5Does God lavish His Spirit on you and work miracles among you because you practice the law, or because you hear and believe?


          In the city, with food freely available, the trust creating (edifying) work was through tongues:


          Acts 19:6And when Paul laid his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came upon them, and they spoke in tongues and prophesied.

          1 Cor 14:4The one who speaks in a tongue edifies himself; but the one who prophesies edifies the church.

          So belief must manifest first, leading to the giving of the Holy Spirit, in turn leading to belief in God's ability to save always, leading to testing for the genuine-ness of that belief, testing if the person has changed, is born again leading to allowing entry into the Kingdom.

          James 2:21Was our father Abraham not justified by works when he offered up his son Isaac on the altar? 22You see that faith was working with his works, and [o]as a result of the works, faith was [p]perfected; 23and the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “AND ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS CREDITED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS,” and he was called a friend of God

          At Pentecost, the indwelling Holy Spirit and the new birth became one. Born again Jews also received the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.
          Wrong. At Pentecost the Holy Spirit began giving the trust nurturing feeding to the whole world. Which is why Jesus said it would be better if He went away to the Father.


          John 16:7But I tell you the truth, it is for your benefit that I am going away. Unless I go away, the Advocate will not come to you; but if I go, I will send Him to you.

          Last edited by footwasher; 01-03-2021, 08:38 PM.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Esther View Post

            After Jesus was resurrected and still on the earth, he breathed on his disciples and said receive the Holy Spirit.

            John 20:22:
            And having said this, He breathed on them and said to them, Receive the Holy Spirit!

            This was a salvation receiving of the Holy Spirit, Jesus having died, been buried and raised the third day. Believing in these facts as a requirement for salvation.

            When Jesus ascended back to heaven he told the disciples to wait to receive power from above.

            Acts 1:4-5
            4 And while being in their company and eating with them, He commanded them not to leave Jerusalem but to wait for what the Father had promised, Of which [He said] you have heard Me speak.

            5 For John baptized with water, but not many days from now you shall be baptized with ([a]placed in, introduced into) the Holy Spirit.

            The baptism of the Holy Spirit was needed to preach the Gospel with power.

            The receiving of the Holy Spirit for salvation is one thing. The baptism of the Holy Spirit is an extra, separate event.

            Acts 2:4
            4
            And they were all filled (diffused throughout their souls) with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other (different, foreign) languages (tongues), as the Spirit [a]kept giving them clear and loud expression [in each tongue in appropriate words].
            Hebrews 11 list many OT saints who were saved by faith. Faith is a fruit of the Holy Spirit in Galatians. The problem with today's popular thought is, people cannot grasp spiritual truth before being born-again. So they end up trusting in idols named Jesus instead of the true.

            Jesus says the Holy Spirit is with you but shall be in you to the disciples. We see evidence of this later in Acts.

            Comment

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