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Cornelius and Total Depravity

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  • Originally posted by Dave L View Post

    Human faith is not Holy Spirit faith. People think it saves them but it cannot discern spiritual truth. It chooses only idols it calls by Christ's name.
    Jesus says faith is not losing heart, being courageous, and He teaches us to ask for bread everyday, to strengthen our faith:

    Luke 18:1Now He was telling them a parable to show that at all times they ought to pray and not to lose heart, 2saying, “In a certain city there was a judge who did not fear God and did not respect man. 3“There was a widow in that city, and she kept coming to him, saying, ‘Give me legal protection from my opponent.’ 4“For a while he was unwilling; but afterward he said to himself, ‘Even though I do not fear God nor respect man, 5yet because this widow bothers me, I will give her legal protection, otherwise by continually coming she will wear me out.’” 6And the Lord said, “Hear what the unrighteous judge said; 7now, will not God bring about justice for His elect who cry to Him day and night, and will He delay long over them? 8“I tell you that He will bring about justice for them quickly. However, when the Son of Man comes, will He find faith on the earth?”

    You Bible knowledge seems to be about making up things. Please do something about it. Like receiving the Holy Spirit.

    The first part of my post is not an insult, it's a sincere observation. The second part is a request.
    Last edited by footwasher; 12-30-2020, 09:46 AM.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by footwasher View Post

      Jesus says faith is not losing heart, being courageous, and He teaches us to ask for bread everyday, to strengthen our faith:

      Luke 18:1Now He was telling them a parable to show that at all times they ought to pray and not to lose heart, 2saying, “In a certain city there was a judge who did not fear God and did not respect man. 3“There was a widow in that city, and she kept coming to him, saying, ‘Give me legal protection from my opponent.’ 4“For a while he was unwilling; but afterward he said to himself, ‘Even though I do not fear God nor respect man, 5yet because this widow bothers me, I will give her legal protection, otherwise by continually coming she will wear me out.’” 6And the Lord said, “Hear what the unrighteous judge said; 7now, will not God bring about justice for His elect who cry to Him day and night, and will He delay long over them? 8“I tell you that He will bring about justice for them quickly. However, when the Son of Man comes, will He find faith on the earth?”

      You Bible knowledge seems to be about making up things. Please do something about it. Like receiving the Holy Spirit.

      The first part of my post is not an insult, it's a sincere observation. The second part is a request.
      Call it what you like, if people are insulted, it's an insult. Not a big deal, it comes with the calling.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Dave L View Post

        Call it what you like, if people are insulted, it's an insult. Not a big deal, it comes with the calling.
        Genesis 4:7:"If you do well, will not your countenance be lifted up? And if you do not do well, sin is crouching at the door; and its desire is for you, but you must master it."

        See, the first part is an observation. The second part is a request, advice.

        Red herrings, changing the subject, avoiding the question, which you are doing, spoils the discussion. You must avoid it.
        Last edited by footwasher; 12-30-2020, 12:38 PM.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by footwasher View Post

          Genesis 4:7:"If you do well, will not your countenance be lifted up? And if you do not do well, sin is crouching at the door; and its desire is for you, but you must master it."

          See, the first part is an observation. The second part is a request, advice.
          What's your point?

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Dave L View Post

            What's your point?
            It's not an insult if someone is pointing out an obvious problem. It's to have a good discussion, not to destroy you.

            I don't mind if you stick to the subject and give a good answer. It will correct me, and I will appreciate the favor. Changing the subject doesn't help either of us.
            Last edited by footwasher; 12-30-2020, 01:17 PM.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by brightfame52 View Post

              But how can one hear the word spiritually without already being born of the Spirit ? Faith is the fruit of the Spirit Gal 5 22
              Various lexicons will explain that "pistis" can have a range of meanings depending on context. Most modern translations render it "faithfulness" in 5:22.

              Meanwhile, you merely skip by Gal. 3 without addressing what it means in your theology.

              You seem to be espousing the "Regeneration Precedes Faith" dogma which, some years ago, various aggressive Calvinist Web-warriors were blasting around with the full force of their brain flatus: RPF!!! RPF!!! (I happen to believe that RPF notion is rather pivotal to Calvinist soteriology.) If I understand your view, one must be "born of the Spirit" (= "born of God," "born from above," "born again," "regenerated," "receive the Spirit") *first*. Only *then* is one able to "hear," and then after that to "believe."

              That does not fit the sequence of Gal. 3: Hear, then believe what was heard, then receive the Spirit, then begin the Christian life, then by the Spirit continue and complete the Christian life.

              It also does not comport well with 1 Pet. 1:22-25, which show that being "born anew" follows rather than precedes the preached word.
              Geislerminian Antinomian Kenotic Charispneumaticostal Gender Mutualist-Egalitarian.

              Beige Federalist.

              Nationalist Christian.

              "Everybody is somebody's heretic."

              Social Justice is usually the opposite of actual justice.

              Proud member of the this space left blank community.

              Would-be Grand Vizier of the Padishah Maxi-Super-Ultra-Hyper-Mega-MAGA King Trumpius Rex.

              Justice for Ashli Babbitt!

              Justice for Matthew Perna!

              Arrest Ray Epps and his Fed bosses!

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Dave L View Post

                Faith is a fruit of the Holy Spirit. Flesh faith cannot save. Born again people exist all the way to Eden. You cannot understand the gospel unless first born again.
                Where is that scripture that says Faith is a fruit of the Holy Spirit. Faithfulness is a Fruit of the Holy Spirit. Saving Faith and Faithfulness while related are not the same thing.
                "What has the Church gained if it is popular, but there is no conviction, no repentance, no power?" - A.W. Tozer

                "... there are two parties in Washington, the stupid party and the evil party, who occasionally get together and do something both stupid and evil, and this is called bipartisanship." - Everett Dirksen

                Comment


                • Originally posted by NorrinRadd View Post

                  Various lexicons will explain that "pistis" can have a range of meanings depending on context. Most modern translations render it "faithfulness" in 5:22.

                  Meanwhile, you merely skip by Gal. 3 without addressing what it means in your theology.

                  You seem to be espousing the "Regeneration Precedes Faith" dogma which, some years ago, various aggressive Calvinist Web-warriors were blasting around with the full force of their brain flatus: RPF!!! RPF!!! (I happen to believe that RPF notion is rather pivotal to Calvinist soteriology.) If I understand your view, one must be "born of the Spirit" (= "born of God," "born from above," "born again," "regenerated," "receive the Spirit") *first*. Only *then* is one able to "hear," and then after that to "believe."

                  That does not fit the sequence of Gal. 3: Hear, then believe what was heard, then receive the Spirit, then begin the Christian life, then by the Spirit continue and complete the Christian life.

                  It also does not comport well with 1 Pet. 1:22-25, which show that being "born anew" follows rather than precedes the preached word.
                  Yes faith is the fruit of the Spirit Gal 5 22 A Spiritually dead in sin person cannot hear Spiritually.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by brightfame52 View Post

                    Yes faith is the fruit of the Spirit Gal 5 22 A Spiritually dead in sin person cannot hear Spiritually.
                    You continue merely making vapid assertions without supporting them, while at the same time ignoring my counter-points.

                    You are either an insincere interlocutor -- i.e., a troll -- or an incompetent bumbler.
                    Geislerminian Antinomian Kenotic Charispneumaticostal Gender Mutualist-Egalitarian.

                    Beige Federalist.

                    Nationalist Christian.

                    "Everybody is somebody's heretic."

                    Social Justice is usually the opposite of actual justice.

                    Proud member of the this space left blank community.

                    Would-be Grand Vizier of the Padishah Maxi-Super-Ultra-Hyper-Mega-MAGA King Trumpius Rex.

                    Justice for Ashli Babbitt!

                    Justice for Matthew Perna!

                    Arrest Ray Epps and his Fed bosses!

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by footwasher View Post

                      It's not an insult if someone is pointing out an obvious problem. It's to have a good discussion, not to destroy you.

                      I don't mind if you stick to the subject and give a good answer. It will correct me, and I will appreciate the favor. Changing the subject doesn't help either of us.
                      From insults to false accusations now?

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by NorrinRadd View Post

                        Various lexicons will explain that "pistis" can have a range of meanings depending on context. Most modern translations render it "faithfulness" in 5:22.

                        Meanwhile, you merely skip by Gal. 3 without addressing what it means in your theology.

                        You seem to be espousing the "Regeneration Precedes Faith" dogma which, some years ago, various aggressive Calvinist Web-warriors were blasting around with the full force of their brain flatus: RPF!!! RPF!!! (I happen to believe that RPF notion is rather pivotal to Calvinist soteriology.) If I understand your view, one must be "born of the Spirit" (= "born of God," "born from above," "born again," "regenerated," "receive the Spirit") *first*. Only *then* is one able to "hear," and then after that to "believe."

                        That does not fit the sequence of Gal. 3: Hear, then believe what was heard, then receive the Spirit, then begin the Christian life, then by the Spirit continue and complete the Christian life.

                        It also does not comport well with 1 Pet. 1:22-25, which show that being "born anew" follows rather than precedes the preached word.
                        If faith/faithfulness is a fruit of the Holy Spirit, how can you claim it as a work of self-righteousness? Jesus is the author and finisher of our faith.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by NorrinRadd View Post

                          You continue merely making vapid assertions without supporting them, while at the same time ignoring my counter-points.

                          You are either an insincere interlocutor -- i.e., a troll -- or an incompetent bumbler.
                          Man is dead in sin y nature Eph 2:1,5 and Faith is the fruit of the Spirit Gal 5:22 that goes for faithfulness as well

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Dave L View Post

                            From insults to false accusations now?
                            It's not a false observation.

                            ​​​
                            In #86 you posted that men cannot believe on their own, God chose the elect and regenerated them.

                            #87 I made a case for the model that God reaches out to all men, hoping they would believe and seek Him out.

                            Instead of pointing out the fault in my reasoning, you state that it does not agree with Scripture, which you say states all men love the darkness. Why did you avoid pointing out the weakness in my post? Instead, you posted Scripture that you claim says all men love darkness when in the passage it says some men love darkness and others love the light.

                            Instead of proving my post wrong, you claimed Cornelius was one who was born again and this resulted in him loving the light. Why didn't you point out the fault in my post? Why did you make unsupported claims about Cornelius being born again? You very clearly avoided engaging with my points.

                            Instead, you tried to start a new argument in order to shut down the original argument, to make me engage with fresh material. This is called using red herrings, diverting down a rabbit trail, making the clarification go in different directions, so that there is no conclusion for any of the issues. If you keep creating new issues when you are shown the weakness in your arguments, how will any conclusion be made? How will it be a profitable discussion?

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by footwasher View Post

                              It's not a false observation.

                              ​​​
                              In #86 you posted that men cannot believe on their own, God chose the elect and regenerated them.

                              #87 I made a case for the model that God reaches out to all men, hoping they would believe and seek Him out.

                              Instead of pointing out the fault in my reasoning, you state that it does not agree with Scripture, which you say states all men love the darkness. Why did you avoid pointing out the weakness in my post? Instead, you posted Scripture that you claim says all men love darkness when in the passage it says some men love darkness and others love the light.

                              Instead of proving my post wrong, you claimed Cornelius was one who was born again and this resulted in him loving the light. Why didn't you point out the fault in my post? Why did you make unsupported claims about Cornelius being born again? You very clearly avoided engaging with my points.

                              Instead, you tried to start a new argument in order to shut down the original argument, to make me engage with fresh material. This is called using red herrings, diverting down a rabbit trail, making the clarification go in different directions, so that there is no conclusion for any of the issues. If you keep creating new issues when you are shown the weakness in your arguments, how will any conclusion be made? How will it be a profitable discussion?
                              You don't understand the doctrine of election. God does not reach out to all people. If he did, why didn't Jesus die for them? Or pray for them?

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Dave L View Post

                                You don't understand the doctrine of election. God does not reach out to all people. If he did, why didn't Jesus die for them? Or pray for them?
                                Okay, here is Scripture support for my statement that God reaches out to ALL people:

                                Acts 17:24“The God who made the world and all things in it, since He is Lord of heaven and earth, does not dwell in temples made with hands; 25nor is He served by human hands, as though He needed anything, since He Himself gives to all people life and breath and all things; 26and He made from one man every nation of mankind to live on all the face of the earth, having determined their appointed times and the boundaries of their habitation, 27that they would seek God, if perhaps they might grope for Him and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us; 28for in Him we live and move and exist, as even some of your own poets have said, ‘For we also are His children.’

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