Seed vs Seeds

[RBerman]

I think Genesis 17:7-8 is the exact passage he is quoting. Note that Abram becomes Abraham in Genesis 17, which would seem to disqualify the prior chapters as being the right quotation. Also, Chapter 17 is where it specifically emphasizes the word "covenant." It is where Abraham first receives the covenant of circumcision, a ritual that Paul talked about in Galatians 2.

Galatians 3
16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

Genesis 17
7 And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee. 8 And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.

Yes, Genesis 17 would fit Paul's criteria in Galatians 3:15-18. And it's a land promise.

I still think that "seed" may refer to all Israel, however, and not just Christ. Maybe Paul's point is that God was not making a treaty with Israel collectively, but rather with each individual Israelite.

That seems to go against the specific point Paul raises in Galatians 3:15-18 about it not referring to the many, but to the one, Christ.


That is certainly Paul's larger concern. However, I'm only asking about the specific argument he's making in verses 15-18 to support it, not that larger question.

[mikewhitney]

The Gen 13 promise works. And the Gen 17 works. However in Gen 15 the 'offspring' described appeared to be more specifically addressing the physical descendants.

One filter that may apply here is that some promises seem to speak of an everlasting benefit. We don't see this everlasting benefit gained through the physical children of Abraham. Even in Gen 15, the promise was more to the offspring (saying "to your offspring I give ..." ) rather than a benefit to Abraham directly.

We somewhat see that the promise in Gen 13 speaks of the offspring as being like the dust. We might assign this merely to Israel (per Isa 10:20-22). However the everlasting benefit seems to describe benefactors through Christ ... who also can be countless.

In this description, the covenant with Israel is shown to be temporal and of a limited scope. It is not through Israel that eternal benefits are gained to people in Christ. The destiny of Israel, the Mosaic covenant, and the law of Moses was not to any longer have relevance ... especially not to the gentiles.

Now we must also look at the dual implications of 'seed' and 'seeds.' We have Paul showing that it was through Abraham's seed that the nations would be blessed. It was a promise to Christ (or the Son, or the 2nd distinct person of the trinity) such that through Christ these blessings would manifest.

Our benefit is gained via our connection with Christ (who is singularly described) yet we inherit through Christ. This inheritance is not individually but singularly through Christ. The plural implications of the promises to Abraham apply to us believers as parts of Christ's body. Or we can look at the vine analogy, Jesus is the vine and we are the many branches. As such the branches represent the offspring numbered as the dust.

[mikewhitney]

The especially interesting thing (beyond knowing the blessings in Christ) is that we are getting a glimpse of the apologetics and general discussion about the relevance of Abraham's covenant (and the significance of Abraham) , as it was discussed in the first century

[Obsidian]

That seems to go against the specific point Paul raises in Galatians 3:15-18 about it not referring to the many, but to the one, Christ.

Well it specifically says "their," in the very same sentence. Paul may simply be saying that not all of Abraham's children fit into the covenant. For example, Ishmael did not. But Christ did.

Genesis 17
7 And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee.
8 And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.

[RBerman]

Well it specifically says "their," in the very same sentence. Paul may simply be saying that not all of Abraham's children fit into the covenant. For example, Ishmael did not. But Christ did.

Genesis 17
7 And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee.
8 And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.

You are correct that in the English translation, and presumably in the Hebrew original, "their God" has the plural possessive, implying that within the context of Genesis 17, "seed" should be understood as a group noun, singular in grammar but referring to a group of Abraham's descendants. Yet Paul's point in Galatians 3:15-18 restricts the application of that text, in his day, to Christ. I don't see any reference to the line of Ishmael here, though Paul does use a metaphor involving Hagar in the second half of Galatians 4.

[Paprika]

This may be of interest to you guys. From Genesis 26:

The three promises of land, offspring, and blessing to all the nations are brought together when God repeated the promises to Isaac.

[37818]

The Apostle Paul cites Genesis 12:7 in Galatians 3:16-17 for the 430 years from the promise to the giveing of the law.

[RBerman]

This may be of interest to you guys. From Genesis 26: The three promises of land, offspring, and blessing to all the nations are brought together when God repeated the promises to Isaac.

This is the sort of thing that makes me think that, in Galatians 3, Paul specifically intends us to understand that the land promise is fulfilled in Christ, the heir of all things, not just in some specific ethnic group having a perpetual claim to some desert real estate the size of New Jersey. That would go against his whole point.

[Obsidian]

The Apostle Paul cites Genesis 12:7 in Galatians 3:16-17 for the 430 years from the promise to the giveing of the law.

Genesis 12 does not even have the words "And to thy seed," so I don't know where you're getting that from.

[37818]

Genesis 12 does not even have the words "And to thy seed," so I don't know where you're getting that from.

" And the LORD appeared unto Abram, and said, Unto thy seed will I give this land: and there builded he an altar unto the LORD, who appeared unto him." -- Genesis 12:7.

"Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. . . ." -- Galatians 3:16.

". . . the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect."

"For all the land which thou seest, to thee will I give it, and to thy seed for ever." -- Genesis 13:15.

[Obsidian]

16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

[37818]

16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

The promise was first recorded in Genesis 12:7, and yes an exact citation referring to that promise, "And to thy seed," would have to be from Genesis 13:15, ". . . and to thy seed . . . ." or one the other passages aforementioned.