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Seed vs Seeds

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  • Seed vs Seeds

    To give a human example, brothers: even with a man-made covenant, no one annuls it or adds to it once it has been ratified. Now the promises were made to Abraham and to his offspring. It does not say, “And to offsprings,” referring to many, but referring to one, “And to your offspring,” who is Christ. This is what I mean: the law, which came 430 years afterward, does not annul a covenant previously ratified by God, so as to make the promise void. For if the inheritance comes by the law, it no longer comes by promise; but God gave it to Abraham by a promise. (Galatians 3:15-18)

    What is "the promise" of "inheritance" which was made not to Abraham's "offsprings" (older translations say "seeds") but to Abraham's "offspring" (singular), meaning Christ? That is, which of the several promises God made to Abraham is in view here? Or is it all of them? Here are some of the choices:
    Now the Lord said to Abram, “Go from your country and your kindred and your father's house to the land that I will show you. And I will make of you a great nation, and I will bless you and make your name great, so that you will be a blessing. I will bless those who bless you, and him who dishonors you I will curse, and in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed.” (Genesis 12:1-3)
    ----------------------------------------
    The Lord said to Abram, after Lot had separated from him, “Lift up your eyes and look from the place where you are, northward and southward and eastward and westward, for all the land that you see I will give to you and to your offspring forever. I will make your offspring as the dust of the earth, so that if one can count the dust of the earth, your offspring also can be counted. Arise, walk through the length and the breadth of the land, for I will give it to you.” (Genesis 13:14-17)
    ----------------------------------------
    After these things the word of the Lord came to Abram in a vision: “Fear not, Abram, I am your shield; your reward shall be very great.” But Abram said, “O Lord God, what will you give me, for I continue childless, and the heir of my house is Eliezer of Damascus?” And Abram said, “Behold, you have given me no offspring, and a member of my household will be my heir.” And behold, the word of the Lord came to him: “This man shall not be your heir; your very own son shall be your heir.” And he brought him outside and said, “Look toward heaven, and number the stars, if you are able to number them.” Then he said to him, “So shall your offspring be.” And he believed the Lord, and he counted it to him as righteousness...

    Then the Lord said to Abram, “Know for certain that your offspring will be sojourners in a land that is not theirs and will be servants there, and they will be afflicted for four hundred years. But I will bring judgment on the nation that they serve, and afterward they shall come out with great possessions. As for you, you shall go to your fathers in peace; you shall be buried in a good old age. And they shall come back here in the fourth generation, for the iniquity of the Amorites is not yet complete.”

    ...On that day the Lord made a covenant with Abram, saying, “To your offspring I give this land, from the river of Egypt to the great river, the river Euphrates, the land of the Kenites, the Kenizzites, the Kadmonites, the Hittites, the Perizzites, the Rephaim, the Amorites, the Canaanites, the Girgashites and the Jebusites.” (Genesis 15)
    ----------------------------------------
    When Abram was ninety-nine years old the Lord appeared to Abram and said to him, “I am God Almighty; walk before me, and be blameless, that I may make my covenant between me and you, and may multiply you greatly.” Then Abram fell on his face. And God said to him, “Behold, my covenant is with you, and you shall be the father of a multitude of nations. No longer shall your name be called Abram, but your name shall be Abraham, for I have made you the father of a multitude of nations. I will make you exceedingly fruitful, and I will make you into nations, and kings shall come from you. And I will establish my covenant between me and you and your offspring after you throughout their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be God to you and to your offspring after you. And I will give to you and to your offspring after you the land of your sojournings, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession, and I will be their God.”

    ...And God said to Abraham, “As for Sarai your wife, you shall not call her name Sarai, but Sarah shall be her name. I will bless her, and moreover, I will give you a son by her. I will bless her, and she shall become nations; kings of peoples shall come from her.” Then Abraham fell on his face and laughed and said to himself, “Shall a child be born to a man who is a hundred years old? Shall Sarah, who is ninety years old, bear a child?” And Abraham said to God, “Oh that Ishmael might live before you!” God said, “No, but Sarah your wife shall bear you a son, and you shall call his name Isaac. I will establish my covenant with him as an everlasting covenant for his offspring after him. As for Ishmael, I have heard you; behold, I have blessed him and will make him fruitful and multiply him greatly. He shall father twelve princes, and I will make him into a great nation. But I will establish my covenant with Isaac, whom Sarah shall bear to you at this time next year.” (Genesis 17)
    ----------------------------------------
    And the angel of the Lord called to Abraham a second time from heaven and said, “By myself I have sworn, declares the Lord, because you have done this and have not withheld your son, your only son, I will surely bless you, and I will surely multiply your offspring as the stars of heaven and as the sand that is on the seashore. And your offspring shall possess the gate of his enemies, and in your offspring shall all the nations of the earth be blessed, because you have obeyed my voice.” (from Genesis 20)
    Last edited by RBerman; 03-06-2014, 11:03 AM.

  • #2
    For the promise to Abraham and his offspring that he would be heir of the world did not come through the law but through the righteousness of faith. (Romans 4:13)

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Paprika View Post
      For the promise to Abraham and his offspring that he would be heir of the world did not come through the law but through the righteousness of faith. (Romans 4:13)
      Especially in light of that verse in Romans which has a parallel thought, what do you make of my question about Galatians?

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by RBerman View Post
        Especially in light of that verse in Romans which has a parallel thought, what do you make of my question about Galatians?
        In Galatians, Paul's arguments are about the people of God and what defines them. One common synonym for the people of God would be 'children of Abraham', so I would think the promise in Galatians refers to being "the father of many nations". Due to the work of Christ, now even the Gentiles are "Abraham's offspring, heirs according to promise." (3:29) From here it is easy to reach the conclusion in Romans 4: as Abraham's offspring consists of many nations, in fact, since it will consist of people of all nations, to Abraham and his offspring belongs the inheritance of the whole world.

        With respect to 'seeds' vs 'seed' I have read an argument that Paul is casting Jesus as the representative Israel, the corporate Israel. I haven't reached any firm conclusion about the matter though.

        Comment


        • #5
          The ratification that occurred 430 years prior to the law was this one:

          Genesis 46
          2 And God spake unto Israel in the visions of the night, and said, Jacob, Jacob. And he said, Here am I.
          3 And he said, I am God, the God of thy father: fear not to go down into Egypt; for I will there make of thee a great nation:
          4 I will go down with thee into Egypt; and I will also surely bring thee up again: and Joseph shall put his hand upon thine eyes.

          I don't know for sure whether the Seed referenced in the conversation with Abraham refers to Israel, Jesus, or both.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by RBerman View Post
            What is "the promise" of "inheritance" which was made not to Abraham's "offsprings" (older translations say "seeds") but to Abraham's "offspring" (singular), meaning Christ? That is, which of the several promises God made to Abraham is in view here? Or is it all of them?
            I think it's important to note that God actually made two covenants with Abraham. One with the promise of spiritual blessings, and the other with the promise of physical blessings.

            Covenant A:

            1. A spiritual fulfillment; eternal life (see #2)

            2. Based on Abraham's belief in God's word to him ("he believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness"). This is the grace through faith that grants not only us, but all who are considered the children of Abraham by his spiritual seed the gift of eternal life.

            3. Granted to all nations, not just Israel/Jacob ("in you will all families of the earth be blessed")

            Covenant B:

            1. A physical fulfillment; the land of promise.

            2. Based on the sign of circumcision, which was to be carried out in Abraham's physical seed. Notice the several instances where God makes the covenant specific to his physical seed by the phrase, "in their generations". This is an important phrase that denotes a literal, physical seed line. Examples of this can be found all over Old Testament genealogies.

            3. Granted only to Abraham's physical seed. It is later further made specific to Isaac, then to Jacob. (Gen 17:21) (Exo 2:24). This differs from Covenant A, which receives no further specificity. The buck stops at Abraham.

            Of course, the ultimate fulfillment in both of these covenants is found in Christ.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by FlimFlamboyant View Post
              I think it's important to note that God actually made two covenants with Abraham. One with the promise of spiritual blessings, and the other with the promise of physical blessings.

              Covenant A:

              1. A spiritual fulfillment; eternal life (see #2)
              2. Based on Abraham's belief in God's word to him ("he believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness"). This is the grace through faith that grants not only us, but all who are considered the children of Abraham by his spiritual seed the gift of eternal life.
              3. Granted to all nations, not just Israel/Jacob ("in you will all families of the earth be blessed")

              Covenant B:

              1. A physical fulfillment; the land of promise.
              2. Based on the sign of circumcision, which was to be carried out in Abraham's physical seed. Notice the several instances where God makes the covenant specific to his physical seed by the phrase, "in their generations". This is an important phrase that denotes a literal, physical seed line. Examples of this can be found all over Old Testament genealogies.
              3. Granted only to Abraham's physical seed. It is later further made specific to Isaac, then to Jacob. (Gen 17:21) (Exo 2:24). This differs from Covenant A, which receives no further specificity. The buck stops at Abraham.

              Of course, the ultimate fulfillment in both of these covenants is found in Christ.
              Paul's overall point in Galatians 3 is that Jesus is the fulfillment of the Old Testament promises given to Israel, so the Gentiles would be foolish to spend energy becoming Jewish when they should be focusing on Jesus. The specific argument Paul is making in verses 15-18 seems to involve

              (1) a promise of God
              (2) given to Abraham
              (3) concerning an inheritance
              (4) which will be given "to your offspring."

              Among the various promises God makes to Abraham in the book of Genesis, the one that fits this best is from Genesis 15:18-21 "On that day the Lord made a covenant with Abram, saying, “To your offspring I give this land, from the river of Egypt to the great river, the river Euphrates, the land of the Kenites, the Kenizzites, the Kadmonites, the Hittites, the Perizzites, the Rephaim, the Amorites, the Canaanites, the Girgashites and the Jebusites.” Note that this is one of the land promises.

              Paul, keying off a detail of the grammar in Genesis ('It does not say, "And to offsprings..."), pointedly says that this promise is not "referring to many, but to one... who is Christ." This is an interesting grammatical point to raise, since singular "offspring" appears in some of the other Abrahamic promise texts, in contexts which emphasize how many people are within the "offspring." Yet Paul instructs the believers of his age, and presumably of ours as well, to view the land promise as one made to Christ, rather than to the many physical offspring of Abraham. It would appear that the time of linking the land to the lineage of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob had passed.

              This fits well with his previous comment in Galatians 3:14 that, "the blessing given to Abraham might come to the Gentiles through Christ Jesus." The land belongs to Jesus, and since Gentiles can by faith belong to Christ and share in his inheritance, the land is no longer the exclusive property of the Jewish people. But not just the land between the river of Egypt and the Great River. The earth/land which the meek shall inherit (Matt 5:5) is everything that Christ possesses, which is the whole universe. "For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross." (Col 1:19-20) "And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way." (Eph 1:22-23)
              Last edited by RBerman; 03-07-2014, 01:15 PM.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by RBerman View Post
                Paul's overall point in Galatians 3 is that Jesus is the fulfillment of the Old Testament promises given to Israel, so the Gentiles would be foolish to spend energy becoming Jewish when they should be focusing on Jesus.
                Certainly. In fact, I would say that this is the point of Paul's letter to the Galatians in general. In fact, verse 19 makes it pretty clear that one of the main functions of the Law Covenant was to actually prevent Israel from inheriting it, so that Abraham's seed (singular) would inherit it later. Theoretically, if they had thrown themselves upon the mercy of God at Mt. Sinai instead of saying, "yeah, we can totally do this law thing", well, who knows how that would have played out.

                Paul, keying off a detail of the grammar in Genesis ('It does not say, "And to offsprings..."), pointedly says that this promise is not "referring to many, but to one... who is Christ." This is an interesting grammatical point to raise, since singular "offspring" appears in some of the other Abrahamic promise texts, in contexts which emphasize how many people are within the "offspring." Yet Paul instructs the believers of his age, and presumably of ours as well, to view the land promise as one made to Christ, rather than to the many physical offspring of Abraham.
                I'm with you all the way up to this point. However, you lost me here:

                It would appear that the time of linking the land to the lineage of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob had passed.
                When we read that we are "heirs according to the promise", we can ask ourselves two things. A., "heirs of what?", and B., "what promise?". I believe Paul answers both of these questions in Galatians 3, and that we don't need to infer anything more by going back to Genesis:

                (Gal 3:14) That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
                (Gal 3:24) Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

                The promise that Paul emphasizes in this chapter is justification through faith; no mention of the land. The promise was two-tiered. Here it is again when God makes the same promise to Jacob:

                Gen 28:13,14 And, behold, the Lord stood above it, and said, I am the Lord God of Abraham thy father, and the God of Isaac: the land whereon thou liest, to thee will I give it, and to thy seed; And thy seed shall be as the dust of the earth, and thou shalt spread abroad to the west, and to the east, and to the north, and to the south: and in thee and in thy seed shall all the families of the earth be blessed.

                Here we have both the land and what I can only assume is the promise of the Spirit through faith ("all the families of the earth be blessed") being given to "thy seed", which as we know from Galatians is Christ.

                This fits well with his previous comment in Galatians 3:14 that, "the blessing given to Abraham might come to the Gentiles through Christ Jesus." The land belongs to Jesus, and since Gentiles can by faith belong to Christ and share in his inheritance, the land is no longer the exclusive property of the Jewish people.
                Again, I would say that Paul had "the promise of the Spirit through faith" in mind when he wrote verse 14 as opposed to the land. Sharing an inheritance doesn't necessarily mean you get the whole thing. I would also point this out:

                (Rom 15:27) It hath pleased them verily; and their debtors they are. For if the Gentiles have been made partakers of their spiritual things, their duty is also to minister unto them in carnal things.

                The New Testament, as pointed out in numerous places, doesn't promise a physical tabernacle, nor a plot of land, nor does it contain any promise of physical blessings. It does, however, promise that the law would be "written in our hearts", a theme that is consistent with Romans 7. Of course, this salvation is absolutely necessary in order for the promise of land to have any effect, so they are certainly connected in that sense, but I don't think the reverse necessarily follows.


                The earth/land which the meek shall inherit (Matt 5:5) is everything that Christ possesses, which is the whole universe.
                Lost me here as well. I think that when Jesus said the meek will inherit the earth, he really meant the earth. I think it's a stretch to extend that to the whole universe.

                Christ is the fulfillment and the heir of all things, no doubt about it. However, I don't believe that being "in Christ" automatically makes us partakers of everything that he inherited.

                Comment


                • #9
                  "And the LORD appeared unto Abram, and said, Unto thy seed will I give this land: and there builded he an altar unto the LORD, who appeared unto him." -- Genesis 12:7.
                  "And he said unto Abram, Know of a surety that thy seed shall be a stranger in a land that is not theirs, and shall serve them; and they shall afflict them four hundred years; . . ." -- Genesis 15:13.

                  "And the child grew, and was weaned: and Abraham made a great feast the same day that Isaac was weaned. And Sarah saw the son of Hagar the Egyptian, which she had born unto Abraham, mocking. . . ." -- Genesis 21:8, 9.

                  This was 30 years after Abraham was given the promise, marking the beginning of the 400 years of affliction.
                  . . . the Gospel of Christ, for it is [the] power of God to salvation to every [one] believing, . . . -- Romans 1:16.

                  . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3, 4.

                  Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    As somewhat of a side note, let me point out that the ESV translation of these passages is idiotic. There is no such word as "offsprings."

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Obsidian View Post
                      As somewhat of a side note, let me point out that the ESV translation of these passages is idiotic. There is no such word as "offsprings."
                      The point is the same if you use a translation that uses "seed" and "seeds." As you say, a side note.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by FlimFlamboyant View Post
                        When we read that we are "heirs according to the promise", we can ask ourselves two things. A., "heirs of what?", and B., "what promise?". I believe Paul answers both of these questions in Galatians 3, and that we don't need to infer anything more by going back to Genesis:

                        (Gal 3:14) That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
                        (Gal 3:24) Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

                        The promise that Paul emphasizes in this chapter is justification through faith; no mention of the land. The promise was two-tiered. Here it is again when God makes the same promise to Jacob:

                        Gen 28:13,14 And, behold, the Lord stood above it, and said, I am the Lord God of Abraham thy father, and the God of Isaac: the land whereon thou liest, to thee will I give it, and to thy seed; And thy seed shall be as the dust of the earth, and thou shalt spread abroad to the west, and to the east, and to the north, and to the south: and in thee and in thy seed shall all the families of the earth be blessed.

                        Here we have both the land and what I can only assume is the promise of the Spirit through faith ("all the families of the earth be blessed") being given to "thy seed", which as we know from Galatians is Christ.
                        Certainly the larger argument of Galatians 3 is about justification by faith being available to the Gentiles without conversion to Judaism. But within that larger argument, verses 15-18 make reference to the OT in a way that requires fit for the four criteria I mentioned. As best I can tell, the only OT passage that fits those four criteria is one which references the land promises. Paul cites this by way of showing that all the promises made to Israel are fulfilled in Christ -- not only "ultimately" in the far future, but even in his own day, which is precisely why the Gentiles of his own day should be looking to Christ, not ethnic Israel.

                        Lost me here as well. I think that when Jesus said the meek will inherit the earth, he really meant the earth. I think it's a stretch to extend that to the whole universe.
                        Some think that "the meek will inherit the earth/land" is only a reference to the land of Israel promised to Abraham. I think it's broader than that. I agree that Matt 5 by itself only shows that the land promise is broader than Canaan but includes the whole planet. I'd look to Colossians and Ephesians to show the cosmic scope of the church's inheritance.

                        Christ is the fulfillment and the heir of all things, no doubt about it. However, I don't believe that being "in Christ" automatically makes us partakers of everything that he inherited.
                        Well, if by "everything" you mean the unique prerogatives of God, then I agree. Still, we are joint-heirs with Christ.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I think Genesis 17:7-8 is the exact passage he is quoting. Note that Abram becomes Abraham in Genesis 17, which would seem to disqualify the prior chapters as being the right quotation. Also, Chapter 17 is where it specifically emphasizes the word "covenant." It is where Abraham first receives the covenant of circumcision, a ritual that Paul talked about in Galatians 2.

                          Galatians 3
                          16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

                          Genesis 17
                          7 And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee. 8 And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.

                          I still think that "seed" may refer to all Israel, however, and not just Christ.

                          Maybe Paul's point is that God was not making a treaty with Israel collectively, but rather with each individual Israelite.

                          Genesis 17
                          14 And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant.

                          Hence, Jesus was included as part of the promise. He was circumcised. And to experience the same promises, the gentiles do not have to become part of the nation of Israel (a collective). They just have to unite with Christ in a spiritual manner (an individual).

                          Galatians 3
                          27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if ye be Christ’s, then are ye Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.
                          Last edited by Obsidian; 03-07-2014, 11:24 PM.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            This above interpretation might also explain why he mentions that there is no "male or female." Females could not get circumcised, and become Israelites that way. But they could still unify with Christ, who was himself circumcised and kept the whole law.

                            Galatians 5
                            5 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage. 2 Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing. 3 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by RBerman View Post
                              Certainly the larger argument of Galatians 3 is about justification by faith being available to the Gentiles without conversion to Judaism. But within that larger argument, verses 15-18 make reference to the OT in a way that requires fit for the four criteria I mentioned. As best I can tell, the only OT passage that fits those four criteria is one which references the land promises. Paul cites this by way of showing that all the promises made to Israel are fulfilled in Christ -- not only "ultimately" in the far future, but even in his own day, which is precisely why the Gentiles of his own day should be looking to Christ, not ethnic Israel.
                              Another interesting twist Paul makes is that the Spirit part of the promises to Abraham.
                              Does he who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you do so by works of the law, or by hearing with faith— just as Abraham “believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness”?

                              Know then that it is those of faith who are the sons of Abraham. And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, “In you shall all the nations be blessed.” So then, those who are of faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith
                              ...
                              so that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we might receive the promised Spirit through faith. To give a human example, brothers: even with a man-made covenant, no one annuls it or adds to it once it has been ratified. Now the promises were made to Abraham and to his offspring.[/quote]

                              It is this "promised Spirit who is is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it" (Ephesians 1:13-14)

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