Originally posted by fm93
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Another Christian Being Offered On The PC Alter?
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...>>> Witty remark or snarky quote of another poster goes here <<<...
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Originally posted by Adrift View Postif we agree that 1 Corinthians 5:12-13 is in play, God judges those outside of Christ. We judge those who claim to be in Christ. That isn't to say that we can't recognize sin outside of the body. And in the same book we are taught to avoid evil communications. What say you?
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Originally posted by Bill the Cat View PostAnd I am free to tell those who are offended to take a flying leap too. I can not be made to serve someone. Thank you for understanding that.
Originally posted by Abigail View PostI think BtC is using 'acceptance' in terms of gay people not accepting anything less than Christians submitting to the belief that homosexual sex is not sinful.Originally posted by seer View PostNothing is actually immoral in your world FM. It is all relative - correct?Last edited by Tassman; 06-18-2015, 03:12 AM.
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Originally posted by Kristian Joensen View PostThat appears to be the law as it exists currently, in the US. Hardly a good argument FOR that same law.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_Rights_Act_of_1964
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Originally posted by Starlight View PostI would hope that we can agree that the process itself of actually thinking about others and thinking about how your actions might impact on them, is not itself 'enabling'. Having thought through the pros and cons of possible courses of action and thought about how those actions might impact on others, it is quite possible you might come to the view that it's important not to act in a way that's 'enabling'. But that's not a reason to avoid the thought process in the first place.
My concern is that a lot of conservative don't seem to engage in that thought process. There's a lack of serious actual thought given to the outcomes of actions that will affect others, no actual attempt to put yourself in their shoes and think about how they are likely to respond to possible things you might say or do. I see this lack of thought about others consistently in conservative responses on moral issues, and I find it quite concerning.That's what
- She
Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
- Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)
I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
- Stephen R. Donaldson
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Originally posted by Bill the Cat View PostAnd I completely disagree. your concern is for what you perceive as their "natural good" while ours is for something we perceive as much more permanent.
Taking a negative attitude towards gay people is likely to:
1. Drive a lot of gay people away from Christianity. Quite a lot of gay people used to be Christians, and now aren't due to how they've been treated by Christians.
2. Also drive away non-gay people who are upset by your stance on gay issues. I know multiple people whose primary reason for leaving Christianity was the widespread anti-gay stance. And I've seen polls where one-third of people leaving Christianity cite gay-rights as a major factor in their decision.
Whereas, such an attitude wins you zero souls. Unless you take the rather extreme view that gay sex or gay marriage is a salvation-destroying act, and that gay Christians who get married or whatever are going to hell despite being otherwise good Christians in every way...? In that case, I guess you've saved what few of them remain in the church despite the anti-gay attitudes and who persevere in celibacy or in pretending to be / have become straight. So in that case, maybe you are saving one soul or so for every two to ten souls your anti-gay attitude loses you."I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
"Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
"[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein
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Originally posted by Starlight View PostEven if it the fate of their eternal souls you are concerned with, you've got to think about whether Christians setting out to discriminate against to gay people is going to win or lose souls overall.
Taking a negative attitude towards gay people is likely to:
1. Drive a lot of gay people away from Christianity. Quite a lot of gay people used to be Christians, and now aren't due to how they've been treated by Christians.
2. Also drive away non-gay people who are upset by your stance on gay issues.
I know multiple people whose primary reason for leaving Christianity was the widespread anti-gay stance. And I've seen polls where one-third of people leaving Christianity cite gay-rights as a major factor in their decision.
2 Timothy 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires
Whereas, such an attitude wins you zero souls. Unless you take the rather extreme view that gay sex or gay marriage is a salvation-destroying act, and that gay Christians who get married or whatever are going to hell despite being otherwise good Christians in every way...? In that case, I guess you've saved what few of them remain in the church despite the anti-gay attitudes and who persevere in celibacy or in pretending to be / have become straight. So in that case, maybe you are saving one soul or so for every two to ten souls your anti-gay attitude loses you.That's what
- She
Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
- Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)
I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
- Stephen R. Donaldson
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Originally posted by Starlight View PostEven if it the fate of their eternal souls you are concerned with, you've got to think about whether Christians setting out to discriminate against to gay people is going to win or lose souls overall.
Taking a negative attitude towards gay people is likely to:
1. Drive a lot of gay people away from Christianity. Quite a lot of gay people used to be Christians, and now aren't due to how they've been treated by Christians.
2. Also drive away non-gay people who are upset by your stance on gay issues. I know multiple people whose primary reason for leaving Christianity was the widespread anti-gay stance. And I've seen polls where one-third of people leaving Christianity cite gay-rights as a major factor in their decision.
Whereas, such an attitude wins you zero souls. Unless you take the rather extreme view that gay sex or gay marriage is a salvation-destroying act, and that gay Christians who get married or whatever are going to hell despite being otherwise good Christians in every way...? In that case, I guess you've saved what few of them remain in the church despite the anti-gay attitudes and who persevere in celibacy or in pretending to be / have become straight. So in that case, maybe you are saving one soul or so for every two to ten souls your anti-gay attitude loses you.Last edited by Abigail; 06-18-2015, 12:13 PM.
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Originally posted by Starlight View PostEven if it the fate of their eternal souls you are concerned with, you've got to think about whether Christians setting out to discriminate against to gay people is going to win or lose souls overall."As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths." Isaiah 3:12
There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.
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Originally posted by Abigail View PostHowever it does just come down to the whether or not you are willing to believe actively gay lifestyle is NOT a sin, or at least pay lip service to that. If you can't, then it has been my experience you are going to be called homophobe and sidelined. Not all gay people do this but I would say many do and the ones who don't would probably come into hot water if the more 'progressive' amongst them heard of it.Originally posted by Darth Executor View PostChristians softening up has damned millions and will damn billions.
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Originally posted by MaxVel View PostPerhaps seer believes (erroneously??) that it is impossible to successfully construct a consistent and coherent objective morality that is not based on God. So when atheists tell him that they hold to an objective morality, he sees that as them being inconsistent with their overall worldview (atheism).Learn to do right; seek justice. Defend the oppressed. Take up the cause of the fatherless; plead the case of the widow.--Isaiah 1:17
I don't think that all forms o[f] slavery are inherently immoral.--seer
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I don't like to insert myself into other discussions, but...
Originally posted by Bill the Cat View PostNot really. Jesus left the 99 to go after the 1. Truth can not be compromised just to save someone's feelings.
Then their actions are their god and not God Himself. That's idolatry. Making God conform to the image they demand.Learn to do right; seek justice. Defend the oppressed. Take up the cause of the fatherless; plead the case of the widow.--Isaiah 1:17
I don't think that all forms o[f] slavery are inherently immoral.--seer
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Originally posted by Tassman View PostNo it doesn't, “religious people” are still free to think that homosexuality is an abomination to the Lord and preach such sentiments publicly."I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
"Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
"[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein
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