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Another Christian Being Offered On The PC Alter?

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  • #46
    Originally posted by Tassman View Post
    One has freedom of association and disassociation association unless one is serving the public and come under the heading of a "public accommodations", look it up.
    That appears to be the law as it exists currently, in the US. Hardly a good argument FOR that same law.

    When arguing with somone that is against anti-discrimination laws, hate speech laws and the concepts of public accomodations and protected classes, you can't use those same laws and concepts as arguments.

    "We should have anti-discrimination laws because we have anti-discrimination laws"

    Is not a good argument.

    Comment


    • #47
      Originally posted by Tassman View Post
      If you choose to discriminate against some citizens on the basis of archaic beliefs and in defiance of the laws of the land then you will quite rightly “pay the penalty”.
      And I am free to tell those who are offended to take a flying leap too. I can not be made to serve someone. Thank you for understanding that.
      That's what
      - She

      Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
      - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

      I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
      - Stephen R. Donaldson

      Comment


      • #48
        Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post
        It is much simpler than that. Gays want our full acceptance
        Amazing. Human beings have a desire to be fully accepted by other human beings.

        and demand our services.
        Remarkable. People demand services from other people who make a livelihood by providing services.

        They don't just want to be left alone.
        I think it's clear that they meant they want to be able to relate to certain people without outside interference, not that they wanted to completely isolate themselves from the rest of the world like hermits.

        Marriage is one area. Business is another.
        You said nothing about business in your first post. This looks like goalpost-moving.


        Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post
        I can not be made to serve someone. Thank you for understanding that.
        But the very point of this discussion is that currently, it appears that there is no good reason to deny these people service--especially a service as simple and innocuous as providing music at a birthday party. Essentially saying "I don't like people who happen to be gay, so I'm not going to serve them" isn't an instance of boldly standing up for some right. It's an instance of being a petulant (if not immoral) baby.
        Learn to do right; seek justice. Defend the oppressed. Take up the cause of the fatherless; plead the case of the widow.--Isaiah 1:17

        I don't think that all forms o[f] slavery are inherently immoral.--seer

        Comment


        • #49
          Originally posted by fm93 View Post
          But the very point of this discussion is that currently, it appears that there is no good reason to deny these people service--especially a service as simple and innocuous as providing music at a birthday party. Essentially saying "I don't like people who happen to be gay, so I'm not going to serve them" isn't an instance of boldly standing up for some right. It's an instance of being a petulant (if not immoral) baby.
          Nothing is actually immoral in your world FM. It is all relative - correct?
          Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

          Comment


          • #50
            Originally posted by fm93 View Post
            Amazing. Human beings have a desire to be fully accepted by other human beings.
            I think BtC is using 'acceptance' in terms of gay people not accepting anything less than Christians submitting to the belief that homosexual sex is not sinful.

            Comment


            • #51
              Originally posted by fm93 View Post
              Amazing. Human beings have a desire to be fully accepted by other human beings.
              Despite doing things the others consider completely unacceptable. Shocking...


              Remarkable. People demand services from other people who make a livelihood by providing services.
              Despite wanting to force the others to provide that service in a manner inconsistent with their beliefs. Shocking, I tell you!


              I think it's clear that they meant they want to be able to relate to certain people without outside interference, not that they wanted to completely isolate themselves from the rest of the world like hermits.
              They want to relate to certain people, and then interfere with others ability to relate to whom they wish.


              You said nothing about business in your first post. This looks like goalpost-moving.
              Well it isn't. These two areas are intimately linked in these discussions.


              But the very point of this discussion is that currently, it appears that there is no good reason to deny these people service--especially a service as simple and innocuous as providing music at a birthday party.
              Sure there is. You just apparently don't like the reason. This company chooses not to associate with those who they consider immoral.

              Essentially saying "I don't like people who happen to be gay, so I'm not going to serve them" isn't an instance of boldly standing up for some right.
              From where I stand, it is.

              Psalm 26:4-5 ESV

              I do not sit with men of falsehood, nor do I consort with hypocrites. I hate the assembly of evildoers, and I will not sit with the wicked.


              It's an instance of being a petulant (if not immoral) baby.
              It is following Biblical mandates for proper behavior.
              That's what
              - She

              Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
              - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

              I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
              - Stephen R. Donaldson

              Comment


              • #52
                Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post
                Despite doing things the others consider completely unacceptable. Shocking...
                I'm sorry, have you been reading some other thread altogether? I thought we already established that unless further evidence is revealed, it currently seems that the 60-year old isn't currently doing anything that would be considered immoral.

                Despite wanting to force the others to provide that service in a manner inconsistent with their beliefs. Shocking, I tell you!
                They asked if a company that provides music at birthday parties would provide music at a birthday party.

                They want to relate to certain people, and then interfere with others ability to relate to whom they wish.
                They asked if a company that provides music at birthday parties would provide music at a birthday party.

                Well it isn't. These two areas are intimately linked in these discussions.
                Marriage had nothing to do with this incident.

                Sure there is. You just apparently don't like the reason. This company chooses not to associate with those who they consider immoral.
                Obviously their Lord Jesus Christ characterized himself by his refusal to associate with those who were considered immoral.

                From where I stand, it is.

                Psalm 26:4-5 ESV

                I do not sit with men of falsehood, nor do I consort with hypocrites. I hate the assembly of evildoers, and I will not sit with the wicked.




                It is following Biblical mandates for proper behavior.
                That's David speaking, not God. And again, there currently is no indication that the man of honor is engaged in any immorality.
                Last edited by fm93; 06-17-2015, 11:43 AM.
                Learn to do right; seek justice. Defend the oppressed. Take up the cause of the fatherless; plead the case of the widow.--Isaiah 1:17

                I don't think that all forms o[f] slavery are inherently immoral.--seer

                Comment


                • #53
                  Originally posted by fm93 View Post
                  I'm sorry, have you been reading some other thread altogether? I thought we already established that unless further evidence is revealed, it currently seems that the 60-year old isn't currently doing anything that would be considered immoral.
                  And the alcoholic isn't drunk right now...

                  They asked if a company that provides music at birthday parties would provide music at a birthday party.
                  And he said no. Because of the immorality of the birthday boy...


                  They asked if a company that provides music at birthday parties would provide music at a birthday party.
                  And the company said no. Move on and find one that does.


                  Marriage had nothing to do with this incident.
                  But the overarching agenda of homosexuals demand for others to fully accept their immorality covers both.

                  Obviously their Lord Jesus Christ characterized himself by his refusal to associate with those who were considered immoral.
                  What part of "Go and sin no more" don't you get? Jesus may have eaten with sinners, but he always made it a point to preach repentance to them.


                  That's David speaking, not God.
                  It's still scripture. And it is a standard to follow.

                  And again, there currently is no indication that the man of honor is engaged in any immorality.
                  At that moment, maybe not. But it's far better to be safe than sorry in situations where immorality is a strong possibility.
                  That's what
                  - She

                  Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
                  - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

                  I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
                  - Stephen R. Donaldson

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post
                    Amazing. Human beings have a desire to be fully accepted by other human beings.
                    Despite doing things the others consider completely unacceptable. Shocking...
                    And the alcoholic isn't drunk right now...
                    Generally, on these issues, the conservative Christian point of view is that "the sin they are engaging in is a bad idea, because it is harmful to them." What I never quite understand is why the compassionate and loving response is perceived as being "therefore, because they are sinning, we will do what we can to hurt them more, by rejecting, shaming, and oppressing them".

                    If I come across anyone who's lifestyle I perceive to be a harmful one to themselves (eg a drug addict etc), my compassionate and loving response is to be extra caring, extra sensitive, extra affirming of them. Quite honestly, I just think I'm a whole lot more loving, empathetic, and caring than the conservative Christians who seem to prefer to shame, demean, and punish, and discriminate against these sorts of people, while they give virtually no thought ever to how their negative approaches impact upon other people.
                    "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
                    "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
                    "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                      Generally, on these issues, the conservative Christian point of view is that "the sin they are engaging in is a bad idea, because it is harmful to them." What I never quite understand is why the compassionate and loving response is perceived as being "therefore, because they are sinning, we will do what we can to hurt them more, by rejecting, shaming, and oppressing them".

                      If I come across anyone who's lifestyle I perceive to be a harmful one to themselves (eg a drug addict etc), my compassionate and loving response is to be extra caring, extra sensitive, extra affirming of them. Quite honestly, I just think I'm a whole lot more loving, empathetic, and caring than the conservative Christians who seem to prefer to shame, demean, and punish, and discriminate against these sorts of people, while they give virtually no thought ever to how their negative approaches impact upon other people.
                      You realize you're setting yourself up for some of the conservative posters to gang up on you and endlessly commit the tu quoque fallacy by focusing on your views on abortion instead of addressing the point you're making here.
                      Learn to do right; seek justice. Defend the oppressed. Take up the cause of the fatherless; plead the case of the widow.--Isaiah 1:17

                      I don't think that all forms o[f] slavery are inherently immoral.--seer

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                        Generally, on these issues, the conservative Christian point of view is that "the sin they are engaging in is a bad idea, because it is harmful to them." What I never quite understand is why the compassionate and loving response is perceived as being "therefore, because they are sinning, we will do what we can to hurt them more, by rejecting, shaming, and oppressing them".
                        Amazing how you twist things people say into things they not only did not say, but did not intend. But then you must be aware of that.
                        Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Scripture says not to judge outsiders 1 Corinthians 5:12 and to obey the government Romans 14. It's an open and shut case. Close shop or show love. They will just have to let faith step in. God knows what He is doing.

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                            Generally, on these issues, the conservative Christian point of view is that "the sin they are engaging in is a bad idea, because it is harmful to them." What I never quite understand is why the compassionate and loving response is perceived as being "therefore, because they are sinning, we will do what we can to hurt them more, by rejecting, shaming, and oppressing them".
                            When "Go forth and sin no more" doesn't work, then yes. Shunning them is the biblical thing to do.


                            If I come across anyone who's lifestyle I perceive to be a harmful one to themselves (eg a drug addict etc), my compassionate and loving response is to be extra caring, extra sensitive, extra affirming of them.
                            So they think that you are accepting their harmful behavior. Basically, you lie to them. Is your "compassionate and loving response" to a child playing in the street in oncoming traffic also "extra-affirming"?

                            Quite honestly, I just think I'm a whole lot more loving, empathetic, and caring than the conservative Christians who seem to prefer to shame, demean, and punish, and discriminate against these sorts of people, while they give virtually no thought ever to how their negative approaches impact upon other people.
                            No, you are a whole lot more enabling. You have ZERO interest in actually loving them, because REAL love does what is BEST for them, not what they desire to do. Real love and caring runs into the street and forces them out of it whether they like it or not. And that's what you progressive touchy feely types just don't get. You have no clue what real love looks like.
                            That's what
                            - She

                            Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
                            - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

                            I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
                            - Stephen R. Donaldson

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post
                              You have no clue what real love looks like.
                              It looks like Jesus dying on the cross unconditionally. You have your scripture all mixed up. 1 Corinthians 5:12. And the law says it is prejudice and anyone else can see this. Romans 14

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Originally posted by The1islooking View Post
                                It looks like Jesus dying on the cross unconditionally.
                                And it looks like you preach universalism, then it's you who has scripture mixed up.

                                You have your scripture all mixed up. 1 Corinthians 5:12. And the law says it is prejudice and anyone else can see this. Romans 14
                                Who is judging them? It's separating yourself from their unrepentant wicked ways.

                                2 John 1:10 If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your house or give him any greeting, 11 for whoever greets him takes part in his wicked works.
                                1 Cor 15:33 Do not be deceived: “Bad company ruins good morals.”
                                Matt 10:14 "Whoever does not receive you, nor heed your words, as you go out of that house or that city, shake the dust off your feet"
                                That's what
                                - She

                                Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
                                - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

                                I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
                                - Stephen R. Donaldson

                                Comment

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