Transabled?

[Cow Poke]

Its not that there is no hope, some people are able overcome the societal pressures to be something they are not, others try to conform to the social norms their entire lives. There is hope though, knowledge changes with time, and people, some people that is, are beginning to understand that gender identity and human sexuality are not the black and white issues they believed them to be. Actually, this has been known for some time now, but re-educating people as to the facts and so changing societal expectations is obviously a slow process.

And some people are just nuttier than fruitcakes. The inmates are running the asylum. You should feel accepted.

[JimL]

And some people are just nuttier than fruitcakes. The inmates are running the asylum. You should feel accepted.

Yes, it is obvious that there is no hope that you, along with many others can change your minds CP. Thats a closed case i'm afraid. Acceptance of new knowledge comes slow, people have a difficult time giving up life long beliefs.

[Cow Poke]

Yes, it is obvious that there is no hope that you, along with many others can change your minds CP.

Jimmy, there's no virtue in changing one's mind just to fit in with the latest batch of crazies. You're a suckup and a follower, and you're probably always going to be that way.

Thats a closed case i'm afraid. Acceptance of new knowledge comes slow, people have a difficult time giving up life long beliefs.

"New knowledge" is not what we're talking about here. It's the "I'm confused so I'm going to mutilate my body" idiocy which you apparently support, and which, to the crazies, makes sense.

[JimL]

Jimmy, there's no virtue in changing one's mind just to fit in with the latest batch of crazies. You're a suckup and a follower, and you're probably always going to be that way.

No, the difference between us CP is that I am open minded, aka liberal. That means I can change the way I think about things if the information i have changes. You are set in your ways and no amount of new information is going to change that. Of course, in your mind, that makes me and everyone else who are able to see things anew crazies, fruitcakes, suckups, and followers, but so be it, that to shall pass.

"New knowledge" is not what we're talking about here. It's the "I'm confused so I'm going to mutilate my body" idiocy which you apparently support, and which, to the crazies, makes sense.

No, and if you bothered to read my post you would know that I was specifically talking about transgender not transabled. Transabled I know nothing about, and without knowing anything about it I have no opinion on it, at least not one worthy of posting.

[Cow Poke]

No, the difference between us CP is that I am open minded

Jimmy, you're so open minded your brain fell out.

[Cow Poke]

Transabled I know nothing about, and without knowing anything about it I have no opinion on it...

This is new! It's never stopped you before!

[Pentecost]

I've had moments where I intensely wished I was either blind or wheelchair bound to the point where I felt joy when I discovered I needed glasses and I even fantasized about needing a wheelchair or crutches after a minor tear in my groin that left me with a limp for a couple weeks.

Was this sane? Absolutely not. I imagine that I would fit the category of pre-op "transable." However the idea that one would choose to self mutilate is alarmingly insane.

I started to self harm when I was 9 and continued to until partway through High School. The reason I bring this up? Because self harm is bad and the difference between someone who hits/cuts/burns/pulls/bites themselves (I did not do all of those, they are simply common examples) and someone who handicaps themselves because they are uncomfortable in their bodies and dislike themselves is only a difference in degree.

Mental disorders should be treated not coddled speaking as someone who needed treatment and never recieved it.

[Psychic Missile]

Well, I am specifically refering to the transgender community not the transabled. The latter is a new one on me. But for transgender, and this is only my opinion, but I think it is both, societal and biological. Biological because each individual whether male or female, is different, and those differences run the gamut from effeminate to macho, societal because each individual, whether male or female, is supposed to play only one of those specific roles. The role doesn't necessarily match who the person actually is. As I mentioned, Bruce Jenner, mentioned something to the affect that one of the reasons he became an olympic Gold medalist is because he was driven to prove even to himself that he was what society expected him to be. He lived his entire life that way, playing a role, trying to be something that he wasn't. My guess is that if society didn't have these gender identity roles, and people were accepted for whoever they were naturally born to be, then many would not have these identity crisis where they feel a need to transgender.

I want to know what evidence you've encountered makes you think this.

[Psychic Missile]

You mean like liberalism? I guess they should just live with it. We all have difficulties in life. And according to a couple of past linked studies, those who had sex reassignment surgery are no better off psychologically, in some cases worse. It seems to me, that like with the transabled, it is clearly a mental problem, not a physical one.

Why do you think people should suffer from an ailment their whole life if a cure at a cost they are willing to pay exists? Why do you think the consensus of the relevant medical fields is support for sexual reassignment surgery?

[Psychic Missile]

I can't believe this is seriously being considered.....

If the alternative if a lifetime of suffering, why not?

[Psychic Missile]

Cutting off a limb is by definition fundamentally harmful....

What about when amputation is found to be medically necessary?

[Irate Canadian]

If the alternative if a lifetime of suffering, why not?

i don't even.......
,
How did society manage to get to the point where we're asking ourselves, "Can we cut off our arms and other appendages to feel better?" I could understand( from a person who enjoys thinking about the future) someone replacing their hands if damaged. It makes sense then. But where do we draw the line PM? Just because someone wants to do something, that doesn't make that behaviour acceptable.

[Irate Canadian]

What about when amputation is found to be medically necessary?

That's not the point PM.

The problem is that people are cutting their hands and other appendages off even when healthy. I honestly don't think amputation is the answer. Enabling certain activities does not make them acceptable.

[JimL]

I want to know what evidence you've encountered makes you think this.

First, as I said, this is my opinion. Second, I think that the evidence is obvious. In my experience, society, at least generally speaking, has always expected the males and females to act in a way respective to there particular sex. If their personalities should cross over into the others respective roles then they are thought of as odd and ostracised. But that, in my opinion, is what is abnormal, because people should not have to conform to social norms, because social norms are not reality, they are social constructs which interfere with a persons real identity. The evidence for this is the word of people who live through it. Not sure if I articulated that very clearly, but I think it is clear enough.

[JonathanL]

First, as I said, this is my opinion. Second, I think that the evidence is obvious. In my experience, society, at least generally speaking, has always expected the males and females to act in a way respective to there particular sex. If their personalities should cross over into the others respective roles then they are thought of as odd and ostracised. But that, in my opinion, is what is abnormal, because people should not have to conform to social norms, because social norms are not reality, they are social constructs which interfere with a persons real identity. The evidence for this is the word of people who live through it. Not sure if I articulated that very clearly, but I think it is clear enough.

Individual norms (which you refer to as "a person's real identity") aren't any less constructed than social norms, so if we're going by that criteria I don't see why the feeling of the individual should trump the judgement of society.