Why do some Americans believe weird things?

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

This would be a clear example of "Bible Trivia Game" playing, and exactly what I said about creating a sense of smugness over something literally not careed about. And that it says alot of not pretty stuff about the person playing the game than it does about anything else.

I did not introduce biblical verses or beliefs into this thread. Rogue06 has already acknowledged that he did. Take it up with him. However, I will not ignore people putting forward preconceived beliefs as if they are attested historical facts.

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

With regards to prophecies referenced in the New Testament, it was the practice of the time to look in scripture for historical parallels to present events, so in the case of the Isaiah reference in the gospels, the gospel writers saw a virgin giving birth and saw the Isaiah parallel as a sign that it was a divine event, so even if Isaiah did use an ambiguous word or phrase that could mean anything from a virgin to simply a young woman, that makes no difference to how the prophecy was used in the New Testament, nor does it change the fact that Mary is clearly described as a woman who had never had intercourse.

There is a Hebrew word for "virgin" it is bethulah. The writer of Isaiah never used it.

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

Early, but not 'the beginning'.

It is there from the beginning in the Christian gospels and other NT texts. Christian anti-Judaism/anti-Semitism began with verses found in the NT and ultimately ended at the gates of Treblinka, Buchenwald, and Auschwitz,

Anti Christian sentiment from both Judaism and Rome was predominant at first.

On what extraneous evidence?

Paul himself was one who sought out and even killed Christians (re Stephen).

And after his conversion, he was many times beaten, stoned and whipped on account of it.

Does Paul turn to pagans because the Jews reject him? Or do the Jews reject him because he has turned to pagans?

The hostility of the Jewish leaders to Christ is part of the history of what happened to Jesus. The Jewish leaders were in fact very hostile to Jesus because he exposed their hypocrisy AND he was a danger in that if the people saw him as their King, it would invite scrutiny and possible hostile action from the occupying Rome. After the diaspora, the predominant persecution towards Christians was from Rome alone. That changed of course when Constantine converted and Christianity became the official religion of Rome - and thus the RCC was born.

Where did you find this mish-mash of nonsense?

But we are talking about 300+ years when Christians were killed for their beliefs.

Killed by whom for their beliefs? Some attested historical evidence is required.

And sometimes early on by Jewish leaders that viewed them as a threat to Israel under occupying Rome.

On what evidence?

Why Jewish persecution arose withing the Romanized Christian church is complicated, but contrary to the teachings of scripture. The RCC had a LOT of conflicting practices and actions relative to what the scriptures teach. Hostility to the remaining Jews was just one of them. Indeed, those conflicts with scripture was what spurred the Protestant Movement, even though Luther retained a hostile attitude towards the Jewish people.

Why are you writing about the RCC? That came much later. The Western Christian side of the empire was comparatively unimportant in the early fourth century and was barely represented at the First Council of Nicaea in 325 CE.

And yes, I think you are probably correct in that the more positive attitude of Christians to the Jewish people is a more modern thing, something that was a consequence perhaps of the Holocaust paradoxically enough.

I look at it more as a possible form of collective guilt, given that all the countries involved in the holocaust were traditionally Christian.

Nevertheless, none of that changes the fact that Christian faith is sourced in Judaism and there is nothing in scriptures or the teaching of scriptures that condones or in any way encourages hostility towards the Jewish people - or ANY people for that matter.

I would contend that the only things Christianity takes from Judaism are its eponymous founder and the gravitas and morality of Judaism. Everything else comes from Hellenism and Hellenistic philosophy.

The idea of Jewish people as 'Christ killers' is nothing more than human nature ignoring what scripture teaches

the Jews

Christ healed the ear of the guard Peter attacked. Jesus rebuked the disciples for trying to fight back, and for wanting to 'call down fire from heaven' on sinners. Jesus taught us to love our enemies and pray for those that persecute us.

One has to ask why, according to Luke 22.36 Jesus sent those of his disciples who did not have swords to go out to buy one? What did they need them for? Cutting up their bread and meat? Trimming their toe-nails?

.So even if Christians erroneously thought of the Jewish people as "Christ killers"

Your religion and its adherents did for around 1900 years, and some still do today.

(Not understanding this was simply what was foretold would be the case)

foretold

It has puzzled me my entire life HA. I remember one time (very young) in church asking my dad what happened to the Jewish people. He said they were still here. I said, wow, they must all be really great Christians then - after all Jesus is Messiah. He said, "no, it didn't work out that way. Most modern jewish people don't believe in Jesus".

I was surprised, but my reaction inside was that what a wonderful thing it would be to be part of the same people from whom Jesus came

, and I just didn't have a clue about the history, the holocaust, the centuries of persecution

Why not? Did your parents and religious instructors not teach you the truth?

, that would have been a really good reason most Jewish people don't actually believe in Jesus. Nevertheless, I'm saying all that to say that there really is nothing in the faith itself that should cause Christians to be hostile to Jews.

Unfortunately your Christian texts hold the roots of that anti-Judaism/anti-Semitism, and that fact cannot be denied.

[Cow Poke]

There is a Hebrew word for "virgin" it is bethulah. The writer of Isaiah never used it.

Wow, that's POWERFUL!!!! I'm sold!!!

[Cow Poke]

I'll ask you as well, given that the others have gone strangely quiet...

Because you're a - you have no real interest in the topic other than picking fights. You don't believe the Bible is the inspired word of God, you probably don't believe Paul ever actually existed....

You're only here to argue, and there's actually biblical counsel in not engaging people like you.

[Littlejoe]

I often wonder why some atheists spend so much of their time arguing against Christianity. They claim it's as silly as believing in Santa Claus and yet spend a considerable amount of their time and resources debating and trying to disprove it. Some have even made a career of it. And they don't spend their time discussing other religions, just Christianity.

It's almost like they're afraid it might be true and are desperately trying to convince themselves that it's not.

In my experience in ministry and life, the ones who argue the most strenuously against something are the one that are less secure in their position. HA though is a self admitted troll who has no interest in honest debate or discourse. Her tactics are pretty plain. Why anyone bothers to engage that type of poster is beyond me.

[Cow Poke]

In my experience in ministry and life, the ones who argue the most strenuously against something are the one that are less secure in their position. HA though is a self admitted troll who has no interest in honest debate or discourse. Her tactics are pretty plain. Why anyone bothers to engage that type of poster is beyond me.

Ox is doing a good job - I hereby authorize him as my spokesperson with regard to this person on this matter.

[Mountain Man]

As to your earlier point, do you not care for people pointing out inconsistencies in your texts and providing known historical facts?

Is that what you think you're doing?

[Ronson]

Ox is doing a good job - I hereby authorize him as my spokesperson with regard to this person on this matter.

Ox can make some formidable arguments. He's at least a two-coffee debater (meaning, I won't argue with him after only one cup).

[Cow Poke]

(meaning, I won't argue with him after only one cup).

Can I use that?

[Mountain Man]

Ox can make some formidable arguments. He's at least a two-coffee debater (meaning, I won't argue with him after only one cup).

When it comes to religious debates, I agree. When it comes to political debates, well, he's more of a "two shots" debater, as in he argues like he's taken two shots of something pretty strong before entering the arena.

[Ronson]

Can I use that?

Public domain

[Cow Poke]

Public domain

Come on, man, make me do pushups or something, or you ain't black!

[Electric Skeptic]

Not all Christians.

However, that a country as technologically advanced as the USA has, among its population, swathes of individuals [some of whom allege they are Christians] who believe in demons, international cabals of paedophile cannibals attempting to overthrow the country, or that vaccinations are being prepared to reduce religious belief, should be of concern to anyone who values rational objectivity over irrational appeals to prejudice and bigotry.

Believe me, it is.

[JimL]

Because you're a - you have no real interest in the topic other than picking fights. You don't believe the Bible is the inspired word of God, you probably don't believe Paul ever actually existed....

Whenever people disagree with you CP, they all of a sudden become a troll, someone who has no interest in the (your) truth, and so you go into personal attack mode. Obviously HA doesn't agree with your perspective on the bible. So what? Disagreement with you, expressing ones own understanding, voicing ones own opinion, doesn't make them a troll. Calling them a troll makes you one though.

You're only here to argue, and there's actually biblical counsel in not engaging people like you.

"People like you?" What's that supposed to mean, CP. Looks like ing to me.