How do you attempt to rationalise with the completely irrational?

[Whateverman]

And water can boil at about 212 degrees and not boil 212 degrees at the same time - in theory.

First time I've ever heard this claim...

[Bill the Cat]

First time I've ever heard this claim...

https://chem.libretexts.org/Bookshel...re_and_Boiling

[seer]

First time I've ever heard this claim...

Of course it can't happen, are you even following the discussion?

[Sparko]

Of course not, His rational nature is fixed and eternal, just as He could not be unjust since His moral nature is fixed and eternal.

You didn't actually answer the question with that last part.

If he can't exist and not exist at the same time, then he is subject to the law of non-contradiction. It doesn't depend on his nature. It is simply a description of reality. He could not exist, or he could exist. But he can't both exist and not exist at the same time in the same way. It doesn't depend on his nature. That is true of anything.

[Whateverman]

You said:

I don't know; no one does. It's safe to assume that logic works very well in most cases and in most places. Is it "absolute"? Probably not; we've that logical reasoning starts to break down at the quantum level, for example.

I said:

So if the law of non-contradiction is not absolute then what you just wrote about could possibly mean its opposite.

What is the problem?

There wasn't a meaningful opposite to what I just wrote about. There wasn't an opposite which would have fundamentally changed the meaning of what I wrote.

[seer]

You didn't actually answer the question with that last part.

If he can't exist and not exist at the same time, then he is subject to the law of non-contradiction. It doesn't depend on his nature. It is simply a description of reality. He could not exist, or he could exist. But he can't both exist and not exist at the same time in the same way. It doesn't depend on his nature. That is true of anything.

No Sparko, it may be true that nothing could both exist and not exist at the same time in the same way but God is not ruled or confined by anything external to Him. It is His nature alone that defines His being and abilities. He creates according to His nature, therefore the universe is a reflection of that rational (logical) nature.

[Sparko]

No Sparko, it may be true that nothing could both exist and not exist at the same time in the same way but God is not ruled or confined by anything external to Him. It is His nature alone that defines His being and abilities. He creates according to His nature, therefore the universe is a reflection of that rational (logical) nature.

again, how can he avoid the law of non-contradiction? If he doesn't exist for example, that would have nothing to do with his nature since he wouldn't have any. If he did exist, his nature again has nothing to do with his existence, since he is eternal and has always existed. And there is no way to both exist and not exist, it is logically impossible. God can't do the logically impossible because it is impossible. No matter what his nature. It is not a limitation of his power, it is simply a statement of rationality.

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

See, your little passive aggressive attacks...

It is a fact. I am not "talking" I am typing, as are you and everyone else who posts to these boards.

[Watermelon]

I believe that is a matter of interpretation. Electrons are not even actually "balls" that spin or rotate. More like waves.

But imagine looking at Earth's spin from the North pole. It is rotating counter clockwise. View it from the south pole, it is rotating clockwise.

The law of non-contradiction is that something can't be A and not-A at the same time in the SAME WAY.

Quantum physics is a strange field of physics. It is a lot of theory and math and not a lot of understanding. Things can appear to be contradictory because of our limitations in understanding and ability to model or measure it. It is not a good example to try to prove the laws of logic don't hold.

https://www.quora.com/Is-the-spin-ro...unterclockwise

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

Quantum physics is a strange field of physics. It is a lot of theory and math and not a lot of understanding.

Possibly for the layperson. However, rest assured quantum physicists understand quite a lot about it.

[Whateverman]

Possibly for the layperson. However, rest assured quantum physicists understand quite a lot about it.

Indeed. The first CRT television set was a direct result of that understanding.

[seer]

again, how can he avoid the law of non-contradiction? If he doesn't exist for example, that would have nothing to do with his nature since he wouldn't have any. If he did exist, his nature again has nothing to do with his existence, since he is eternal and has always existed. And there is no way to both exist and not exist, it is logically impossible. God can't do the logically impossible because it is impossible. No matter what his nature. It is not a limitation of his power, it is simply a statement of rationality.

Sparko He avoids the law of non-contradiction because His immutable nature dictates that He does. God is not moral because He conforms to an independent standard of ethics, He is moral by nature. And He is not rational because He conforms to independent logical laws, He is rational and logical by nature. God can't do the logically impossible not because of the laws of logic, but because His nature won't permit it. His nature is the source of all rationality and logic.

[Sparko]

Sparko He avoids the law of non-contradiction because His immutable nature dictates that He does. God is not moral because He conforms to an independent standard of ethics, He is moral by nature. And He is not rational because He conforms to independent logical laws, He is rational and logical by nature. God can't do the logically impossible not because of the laws of logic, but because His nature won't permit it. His nature is the source of all rationality and logic.

Logic isn't a "thing" - it is just a language to describe reality. It can't be "sourced"

smh

[seer]

Logic isn't a "thing" - it is just a language to describe reality. It can't be "sourced"

smh

And who is the source for reality?

[Whateverman]

And who is the source for reality?

If you're going to simply assert that logic's source must refer only to its ultimate source, then you label your God the source for everything you find offensive. Sin, pornography, abortion, lack of belief in Him, BLM, child molestation, profanity, ISIS, illegal immigrants...

Have some respect for your worldview.