How do you attempt to rationalise with the completely irrational?

[Whateverman]

God is not subject to logic, God is logic i.e. He is rational by nature.

Then he is subject to it.

[seer]

Electrons can be spinning clockwise and counter clockwise at the same time. Is that not a contradiction?

And water can boil at about 212 degrees and not boil 212 degrees at the same time - in theory. How do you then do science? I suspect that what you said above is really not happening.

[seer]

Then he is subject to it.

No He is logic, logic is not an external standard He conforms to. It is His nature - rational.

[Whateverman]

What are you talking about? You just said that the laws of logic necessarily do not hold universally or may not be absolute.

I'm talking about the law of non-contradiction.

The law you cited and tried to apply without understanding what it was.

[seer]

I'm talking about the law of non-contradiction.

The law you cited and tried to apply without understanding what it was.

Of course I know what it is - please explain.

You said:

I don't know; no one does. It's safe to assume that logic works very well in most cases and in most places. Is it "absolute"? Probably not; we've that logical reasoning starts to break down at the quantum level, for example.

I said:

So if the law of non-contradiction is not absolute then what you just wrote about could possibly mean its opposite.

What is the problem?

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

What the hell are you talking about? Religious answers are questioned all the time - you have been doing it right here...

I have to remind you again I am not "talking". I am typing.

[Whateverman]

I'd say this thread has answered the title question with authority:

Irrational people cannot be reasoned with.

[seer]

I have to remind you again I am not "talking". I am typing.

See, your little passive aggressive attacks...

[seer]

I'd say this thread has answered the title question with authority:

Irrational people cannot be reasoned with.

You shouldn't be so hard on yourself...

[Whateverman]

Then he is subject to it.

No He is logic

A distinction without a difference

Being logic and being subject to logic are the same thing is this context.

Worse for you is that this makes him weaker than his creation. For example, humans are subject to logic but can violate it with wild abandon.

[Sparko]

Electrons can be spinning clockwise and counter clockwise at the same time. Is that not a contradiction?

I believe that is a matter of interpretation. Electrons are not even actually "balls" that spin or rotate. More like waves.

But imagine looking at Earth's spin from the North pole. It is rotating counter clockwise. View it from the south pole, it is rotating clockwise.

The law of non-contradiction is that something can't be A and not-A at the same time in the SAME WAY.

Quantum physics is a strange field of physics. It is a lot of theory and math and not a lot of understanding. Things can appear to be contradictory because of our limitations in understanding and ability to model or measure it. It is not a good example to try to prove the laws of logic don't hold.

https://www.quora.com/Is-the-spin-ro...unterclockwise

[seer]

A distinction without a difference

Being logic and being subject to logic are the same thing is this context.

Worse for you is that this makes him weaker than his creation. For example, humans are subject to logic but can violate it with wild abandon.

No, God is the very source of logic and the intelligible universe where logic works. And irrationality is a strength? I guess you should know...

[JimL]

No, God is the very source of logic and the intelligible universe where logic works. And irrationality is a strength? I guess you should know...

God is apparrently the eternal source of everything, therefore he is subject to his own eternal and determined nature and can't change anything. He can't change what he eternally knows. God is like nature, it is what it is.

[Sparko]

No, God is the very source of logic and the intelligible universe where logic works. And irrationality is a strength? I guess you should know...

assume that God hasn't created the universe or anything. It is just him. Can he both exist and not exist at the same time? Can he create the universe and not create it at the same time?

[seer]

assume that God hasn't created the universe or anything. It is just him. Can he both exist and not exist at the same time? Can he create the universe and not create it at the same time?

Of course not, His rational nature is fixed and eternal, just as He could not be unjust since His moral nature is fixed and eternal.